Battle bars

[EuRob]

Hello Gents

I have seen a lot of battlebars recently, mainly the ones that 'the club' has been adding to medal bars

I have also seen a few on ebay recently for example:

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...A:IT&ih=019" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...A:IT&ih=019</a>

Does the ebay battle bar look good?

I am always a bit cautious when there seems to be a lot floating around but I aint no expert on these and the only battle bar I have is a METZ on the 1870/71 Kriegs Denkmunze.

Also whilst on the matter of battle bars I noticed in Nimmergut #3180/1 a battle bar with subtitle "nur an Englander vergeben" which translates 'only an Englander assign' What is the meaning of this? the obvious that these were awarded to Englishmen?

Thanks for looking

Rob

Edited February 8, 2008 by EuRob

[Bernd D]

Hello Gents

I have seen a lot of battlebars recently, mainly the ones that 'the club' has been adding to medal bars

I have also seen a few on ebay recently for example:

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...A:IT&ih=019" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...A:IT&ih=019</a>

Does the ebay battle bar look good?

I am always a bit cautious when there seems to be a lot floating around but I aint no expert on these and the only battle bar I have is a METZ on the 1870/71 Kriegs Denkmunze.

Also whilst on the matter of battle bars I noticed in Nimmergut #3180/1 a battle bar with subtitle "nur an Englander vergeben" which translates 'only an Englander assign' What is the meaning of this? the obvious that these were awarded to Englishmen?

Thanks for looking

Rob

Rob,

most of the battle clasps on ebay are fakes. Just like the one your link is pointing at.

Your METZ is very fine.

You find more informations about "nur an Englaender vergeben" in this post "GSWA Medal with bar KALAHARI 1907, New book"

Bernd

[saschaw]

"sterog62" has a lot of battle clasps, and they all look the same. Interresting - as interresting as the other stuff he's offering, again and again ...

[EuRob]

Rob,

most of the battle clasps on ebay are fakes. Just like the one your link is pointing at.

Your METZ is very fine.

You find more informations about "nur an Englaender vergeben" in this post "GSWA Medal with bar KALAHARI 1907, New book"

Bernd

Well everyday is a schoolday as they say!!

Thanks Bernd

Also cheers for the look out on the ebay stuff. Could you explain why you think these are fakes mainly for mysakes but also for new collectors?

Cheers

[saschaw]

Could you explain why you think these are fakes mainly for mysakes but also for new collectors?

Compare them to real ones, you should find some here in GMIC using the forum search. These offered fakes are all of the same kind, with very shrap details. "HeikoGrusdat" is more aware of those than I am, I'm sure he can explain it better.

[HeikoGrusdat]

this is a science for itself.....

compare these and maybe you will see it.....

good clasp:

[HeikoGrusdat]

.................bad clasp:

[HeikoGrusdat]

.......good clasp:

[HeikoGrusdat]

............bad clasp:

[HeikoGrusdat]

.........good clasp:

[HeikoGrusdat]

most of the ebay clasps are crap..... I don`t understand that the people spend more and more money on them - we are talking about clasp here and on other forums every week - and every week we name the same questionable sellers and point out the same questionable (no - the same 100% faked ) battle clasps.....

Rob, search this forum for battle clasps, we have shown a lot of them over the past years.... to learn for yourself what is original and what is faked you need years of watching and you need a lot of them going through your hands...

any questions - please ask now

Heiko

[Wild Card]

Greetings HeikoGrustadt,

Recognizing your experience and knowledge on this subject and being woefully uneducated with regard to these bars, I would like to ask a question.

I have always understood that these bars, at least those to the 1870-71 medal, were unofficial to the extent that the bars were not physically issued by the government; and as such did not come from a single source such as the mint or court jeweler. My question is whether this is correct?

Thank you,

Wild Card

[EuRob]

Thanks Gents

Like I said just starting out on the bars and will be sure to research before I commit to them!!

I can see the differences on your posts Heiko, so cheers for posting

What also smelled 'fishy' was that the ebay clasps were low in price seeing as in latest Nimmergut these are priced into three figure euros.

Wildcard I can tell you that the bar I have (above) was bought from a reputable source on this forums estand and I am to believe that the kriegDenkmunze is a private purchase as the rim of the medal itself does not have the inscription one usually finds on these medals. So maybe that confirms what you posted??

Dunno but am sure someone else who does know will chime in. I for one am very interested in this.....

Rob

[HeikoGrusdat]

Hi wild card,

you are right.... the clasps for the 1870/71 medals were issued in 1895, the 25th anniversary of the war..... What was official were the names of the clasps - what was inofficial was the purchase of the clasps.... every soldier who wanted a clasp or two or three could go to a jeweller and order them - normally every soldier or vet could get the clasps for the battles listed in his military pass. that`s why there are different types of clasps, different types of writing, different materials..... every jeweller made it a little bit different.

Then there are some more completely inofficial clasps for some Vets that wanted a different writing for some special battles - completely inofficial: for example: Cernierung von Metz, Vor Paris, Champigny.......

[Wild Card]

What was official were the names of the clasps - what was inofficial was the purchase of the clasps.... every soldier who wanted a clasp or two or three could go to a jeweller and order them - normally every soldier or vet could get the clasps for the battles listed in his military pass. that`s why there are different types of clasps, different types of writing, different materials..... every jeweller made it a little bit different.

Thank you HeikoGrusdat.

One more question, if I may. Am I to understand that the same policy (above) applied to the China, Colonial and SWA bars as well?

[Wild Card]

most of the ebay clasps are crap..... I don`t understand that the people spend more and more money on them - we are talking about clasp here and on other forums every week - and every week we name the same questionable sellers and point out the same questionable (no - the same 100% faked ) battle clasps.....

Gentlemen,

This brings up an interesting point which we, as stated, see with increasing frequency to which I would like to offer a partial explanation.

What we are dealing with here are ?Battle Bars?. To the best of my knowledge there is no written/published material, to which one can refer, regarding this subject and it?s fakes. Quite frankly, five years ago I would never have imagined that ?Battle Bars? were being faked. Thanks to the generous sharing of knowledge by Forum members, there is a source to which we can refer; but there are a lot of collectors out there who do not know about this (and the other) Forum.

They are out there wandering around aimlessly and buying on good faith. I have seen numerous ?confessions? by members, myself included, regarding fakes they bought when getting started as collectors. As for those who are being taken advantage presently, we can only sympathize and, whenever possible, alert them to the situation; and encourage them to join The Forum.

Thank you,

Wild Card

P.S. Of course, this does not apply only to ?Battle Bars?.

[Bernd D]

[quote

One more question, if I may. Am I to understand that the same policy (above) applied to the China, Colonial and SWA bars as well?

[Bernd D]

Some excamples of different manufakturers.

[Bernd D]

[Bernd D]

[Bernd D]

[Bernd D]