Soviet MOTHERLAND 2cl - two sub-variations ?

[Ed_Haynes]

Christian,

Yes, he did here.

Marc

Not of much use to most of us, alas.

[Christian Zulus]

Yes, he did here.

Dear Marc,

many thanks for the link .

As Ed already noted, it's not much help for non Russian native-speakers .

Marc, please could you tell us the phaleristic content of Igor's postings at sammler.ru - many thanks .

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

Faked Motherland 1cl in PMD's "Red Bible" ?

There are minute engraving differences in the wreath under the central star between 2nd and 3rd classes; the back plate was struck with a different die that was not used to strike 3rd classes.

One of the very first identification spot is the top ray seen from the back. On genuine 2nd class (but also on early 3rd classes), that element has parallel edges, (see # 2213), but on fakes made using later 3rd classes (the most widely available), that element is drop-shaped (see # 1604).

Now, I cannot answer as to why the mint used different dies, but the fact is that they did.

Dear Marc,

if you look on page 172 in PMD's "Red Bible", you will see a Motherland 1cl s/n. 14. The elements of this item are ident to my Motherland 2cl:

- rather massive wreath under the central star

- drop shaped top ray.

On the other hand my Motherland 3cl s/n. 24327 has the ident (slim) wreath of my Motherland 2cl s/n. 2213 and also it's parallel edges of the top ray.

Maybe the mint used elements from different dies as they liked it for manufacturing the Motherlands ?

I can hardly believe, that Paul McDaniel presented a faked - on the basis of a Motherland 3cl - Motherland 1cl to us ?

I think, that most of the (awarded) Motherland 2cl are still at their owners, who had been awarded with that order in the 1980s and some few are in museums (about the 2500 went to collectors ...). Maybe it is possible to make a small survey among the legitimate holders of Motherland 2cl to check their orders and to shoot some good photographs. Maybe the same might be possible at the large museums.

The 3 classes of the Motherland are worth to do some phaleristic research - specially for getting clear guidlines in the authentication of Motherland 2cl (the 1st class seems far too rare for having any significance at the market, I guess). The Motherland had been - besides the RB and RS - the most common military order in the late years of the Soviet Union and the war in Afghanistian is also included.

Best regards

Christian