hipnos Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 Miguel,Your OGLII does not look bad, but I am uncomfortable with the dark trace at the right of the serial number. Could you make several hi-res scans of that specific area, turning the order 90 degrees each time. Also, a close-up of the central part of the tower (from above the clock to the top of the gate) would help.MarcHere you have aHR closeup
hipnos Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 Miguel,Your OGLII does not look bad, but I am uncomfortable with the dark trace at the right of the serial number. Could you make several hi-res scans of that specific area, turning the order 90 degrees each time. Also, a close-up of the central part of the tower (from above the clock to the top of the gate) would help.MarcNow Close Up HR of the SN zone...
hipnos Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 Miguel,Your OGLII does not look bad, but I am uncomfortable with the dark trace at the right of the serial number. Could you make several hi-res scans of that specific area, turning the order 90 degrees each time. Also, a close-up of the central part of the tower (from above the clock to the top of the gate) would help.MarcAgain another SN CU HR
hipnos Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 Miguel,Your OGLII does not look bad, but I am uncomfortable with the dark trace at the right of the serial number. Could you make several hi-res scans of that specific area, turning the order 90 degrees each time. Also, a close-up of the central part of the tower (from above the clock to the top of the gate) would help.MarcThe right one
hipnos Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 Miguel,Your OGLII does not look bad, but I am uncomfortable with the dark trace at the right of the serial number. Could you make several hi-res scans of that specific area, turning the order 90 degrees each time. Also, a close-up of the central part of the tower (from above the clock to the top of the gate) would help.MarcThe last...I think
Lapa Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 The last...I thinkMiguel,I believe that this is an upgraded 3rd class. This type of handwriting is found in the 200,000 and up range, and it seems to me that the last digit was erased.Can you check if there is any sign of unevenness (small depression) where the last digit was.Marc
hipnos Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 Miguel,I believe that this is an upgraded 3rd class. This type of handwriting is found in the 200,000 and up range, and it seems to me that the last digit was erased.Can you check if there is any sign of unevenness (small depression) where the last digit was.MarcSincerely...I can?t find any depression there, I?ve using magnified glass ans I thik that The normal incion of the others numbers is enough like to make a serious depresion in the erased point..., the scare in the front is definetively not gol washing in thier deep, so...We cab agreed that the medal had not re-golded after the scare was caused...I think I can?t make more to try to find the truth, I?m amazed of the great thoroughness that the members of this club had show in this particular case.thanks a lot to everybody. I hope to came, any day, as close as possible to your expertise...regardsmiguel
Christian Zulus Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 I believe that this is an upgraded 3rd class. This type of handwriting is found in the 200,000 and up range, and it seems to me that the last digit was erased.Can you check if there is any sign of unevenness (small depression) where the last digit was.Dear Marc,dear Miguel,there is obviously NO unevenness or or small depression ... For me, that Glory looks o.k. - look, how deep the numbers are engraved, so there should be almost a sort of hole at the revers, I guess, if the last digt should have been erased .Marc, you are an expert located right at the "front", please could you tell to us, how the forgers erase deeply engraved numbers (it's much easier with numbers, done by rotating tool instruments) ? Many thanks for your expertise .Best regards Christian
hipnos Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 Dear Marc,dear Miguel,there is obviously NO unevenness or or small depression ... For me, that Glory looks o.k. - look, how deep the numbers are engraved, so there should be almost a sort of hole at the revers, I guess, if the last digt should have been erased .Marc, you are an expert located right at the "front", please could you tell to us, how the forgers erase deeply engraved numbers (it's much easier with numbers, done by rotating tool instruments) ? Many thanks for your expertise .Best regards ChristianThanks Christian and everibody for your interest and deep knowledge...Miguel
Lapa Posted March 3, 2008 Posted March 3, 2008 Dear Marc,dear Miguel,there is obviously NO unevenness or or small depression ... For me, that Glory looks o.k. - look, how deep the numbers are engraved, so there should be almost a sort of hole at the revers, I guess, if the last digt should have been erased .Marc, you are an expert located right at the "front", please could you tell to us, how the forgers erase deeply engraved numbers (it's much easier with numbers, done by rotating tool instruments) ? Many thanks for your expertise .Best regards ChristianChristian,Tool-engraved Sn are not necessarily easier to erase than hand-engraved ones, it all depens on the individual order.Without going into deep details, a faker would buff out the serial number, and if he want to make ihis job less noticeable, he'd extend his work up the star branch. I have seen some really top jobs, unfortunately.I find you to be a bit too affirmative about the area to the right of the SN. I personally cannot make such a statement without holding the order in my hand.Marc
JimZ Posted March 4, 2008 Posted March 4, 2008 As usual it boils down to the the ability of the forum to study and analyse scans ..... .... But nothing can ever beats holding the order in your hands and studying it!! Or at least being close enough to observe it with your own eyes!.... Till then we can go round in sixes about the sixth digit!!I am unconvinced as to whether or not a digit was erased. I think the key to this order is the obverse as well as studying the upper arm of the star for its consistency with other arms (thickness).I doubt that a hand engraved number was removed as this would show without fail! Unless this was engraved shallower than other numbers ... possible but I'd dare say unlikely.Rotating tool marks that are not as deep as the hand engraved ones are easier to buff out. Yes, that depends on the indidual orders but I have come across some (on other orders) that were extremely light and therefore very easy to polish down.That phantom 6 is either what is left from a buffed out rotating serial number which remained untouched when the hand engraved numbers were added on later.... or is just a coincidence. What I do not like is that the serial number is not centred but shifted to the left. However that is plausible as well. I also do not like the unfortunate scar (not scare!) on the front of the order - a very possible tool mark. But again, it can be other damage - plausible....I may be wrong - but I am not liking what I see! There are too many possibles and although together they may still be plausible, I find myself preferring to play safe than sorry. My humble opinion anyway.How about larger closer scans of the medallion. Maybe something might give from there....Jim
hipnos Posted March 4, 2008 Author Posted March 4, 2008 As usual it boils down to the the ability of the forum to study and analyse scans ..... .... But nothing can ever beats holding the order in your hands and studying it!! Or at least being close enough to observe it with your own eyes!.... Till then we can go round in sixes about the sixth digit!!I am unconvinced as to whether or not a digit was erased. I think the key to this order is the obverse as well as studying the upper arm of the star for its consistency with other arms (thickness).I doubt that a hand engraved number was removed as this would show without fail! Unless this was engraved shallower than other numbers ... possible but I'd dare say unlikely.Rotating tool marks that are not as deep as the hand engraved ones are easier to buff out. Yes, that depends on the indidual orders but I have come across some (on other orders) that were extremely light and therefore very easy to polish down.That phantom 6 is either what is left from a buffed out rotating serial number which remained untouched when the hand engraved numbers were added on later.... or is just a coincidence. What I do not like is that the serial number is not centred but shifted to the left. However that is plausible as well. I also do not like the unfortunate scar (not scare!) on the front of the order - a very possible tool mark. But again, it can be other damage - plausible....I may be wrong - but I am not liking what I see! There are too many possibles and although together they may still be plausible, I find myself preferring to play safe than sorry. My humble opinion anyway.How about larger closer scans of the medallion. Maybe something might give from there....Jim ?Dear Jim: I accept any suggerence you made me (sorry for my bad english - scar- scare...). What do you think I must make with images...?I?m considering send the medal to any of you (better living in Europe!!)Be a collector, not a dealer, my interest is not the market price, but its truly authentication... (I prefer to change medals for anothers I more sough)RegardsMiguel
matteti Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2008/post-4281-1204672512.jpg?Dear Jim: I accept any suggerence you made me (sorry for my bad english - scar- scare...). What do you think I must make with images...?I?m considering send the medal to any of you (better living in Europe!!)Be a collector, not a dealer, my interest is not the market price, but its truly authentication... (I prefer to change medals for anothers I more sough)RegardsMiguelThe fact that the serial number is not centered on star arm but more on the left was also an element for me, but after checking mondvor website, I've seen very similar alignment on Glory II, so that seems ok to me.About the last digit, I cannot really say good or bad, but there is still a small doubt... When I was buying orders, I always tried to make sure there was absolutely nothing weird or strange that could make me doubt. Unfortunately, I had to buy one such unsure order before to realize this and make the decision for future purchases.Hipnos, you can definitely send your order for real authentication to an expert. I don't know personally someone to refer in Europe, but in USA yes.
JimZ Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Hola Miguel,No worries about the English - It wasn't your mistake only When I asked for closer picures of the medallion I was referring to the front with the gilding. Can you post as large an image as possible.I'll send you my e-mail by pm. If you can send me some high resolution images I'd like to study them closer.Jim
hipnos Posted March 5, 2008 Author Posted March 5, 2008 Hola Miguel,No worries about the English - It wasn't your mistake only When I asked for closer picures of the medallion I was referring to the front with the gilding. Can you post as large an image as possible.I'll send you my e-mail by pm. If you can send me some high resolution images I'd like to study them closer.JimWhat part you prefer, All the front circle??. The Spassky tower??. A pity for the maximum sizer of upload (110k)...(some trick??)RegardsMiguel
JimZ Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 As much as you can including the tower of course.I can try to upload some larger scans that you send me.Jim
Bryan Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 Miguel, you can send your picture to a moderator or upload it here: http://www.imageshack.us/
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