Tim B Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I recently picked this up off the estand over at WAF and wanted to ask for some opinions on it. The seller had posted the badge before listing it, but no one commented on the piece. Now, with over 50 looks, still no comments either way.I tried to compare this one to PICS I have on file and I think it comes close to the Juncker and S&L versions based on die characteristics, but I notice the eagle's neck appears wider and the claws are different. I have only seen one of these before and that was sometime back.Understanding that there are various examples and minor differences within makers, does anybody have thoughts one way or another on this piece? Personally, I like it and feel it's okay but would like to hear from others.Thanks in advance. TimHere's the front: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 and the reverse: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Gooood morning, Tim.A combination of parts that I?ve not come across before, but the badge certainly has that ?feel good factor?. The wreath is Juncker, Hinge and catch/catch-plate also Juncker, but the eagle looks to be from the firm who produced the unmarked type with the oblong catch-plate. I wonder if there is a connection to a firm such as S&L? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIC Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Hi Tim, I really see no problem with it either - a keeper IMO. As John said and I agree, a Juncker wreath and hardware with the Unmarked styles' eagle. Looks to be two bona fide makers' parts married once again. Great shape too. What's the connection here? I'd like to know that too! Just as a side here, a pic of your reverse with the reverse of my unmarked Juncker. Identical in every way.ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted April 26, 2008 Author Share Posted April 26, 2008 Guys,Thanks a lot for answering on this, really appreciate it and good news as well. I had a mint 3-rivet R.K. years ago and sold it (it was zinc) thought I would get a couple of better ones, but.... Thanks again!Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Well, its been awhile and I thought I would add another one of these for opinions.Again, it appears to be of the Juncker design and you will note the oval base under the catchplate. Also note it has an oval base under the hinge area and not the more common rectangular base plate. I have only seen a few of these over the years with the oval plate under both areas and wanted to hear some thoughts.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Here's the reverse. I'll add more detail shots if needed or if this progresses to that stage. Thanks for the looks and opinions in advance. It has a really good "feel" to it for me.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Okay, I probably should have started a new thread instead of tying it to this old one, but let's try another angle.Of those that have LGCB's, and especially ones that are made by this same maker, can you check your badges closely for any diagonal grooves along the edges of the lightning bolt? Of the two badges I have, I can see these grooves in varying degrees of visibility. I'm curious to see if they all had them or not. Thanks!Oh, I am running a concurrent thread on this over at WAF as well if interested.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 The grooves may not be as pronounced as those above. Here's the other shield example.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hi TimApologies for the delay in replying?have just returned from a trip!So, what do you have here? Obverse shows the classic Juncker design.Reverse: although the set-up is the unusual (oblong hinge-plate) variation, I have no problems with it.Some time ago I had the chance of handling a badge with the same set-up and measurements were within tolerances of known originals.And in such nice condition!Here is another example from my files.As to the "grooves"...my badges do show heavy file marks, but I'm not sure if they are as uniform as the ones on your example. Possibly a different type of tool?As soon as I get a minute I'll get some pictures taken and posted. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 As promised.....The first is taken from one of my Juncker badges. Clear file marks by artisan 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Badge 2: The next two show a difference in finishing technique by another artisan. Shear marks are visible, as are light file marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Picture 2, badge 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hi John!Thanks for the reply and great examples here. I do see some of the shear marks on my two badges as well; what started me wondering is the grooves shown in the PICS actually appear to be part of the badge and not applied afterward (i/e: filing). I could be wrong, but they just don't look like file marks and are too perfect IMO.One of the "thoughts" I proposed over at WAF was, could they have incorporated these grooves to possibly aid in the removal process when the badge was taken out of the die? The lightning bolt is pretty thin and fragile when compared to other badges that have a more solid type design. Not sure how much stress would be on the center lightning bolt, but by incorporating grooves along the edges, would it effectively reduce the surface area enough to keep the bolt from cracking or separating as the badge got ejected from the die. I just don't know enough about the die forging/casting/stamping processes. I assume that most of these marks were filed down during finishing work or perhaps some just didn't remain as apparent when the badge was ejected. Only guessing here.I do really like the badge! It has a real good look/feel to it and compares almost identical to the other one with the obvious exceptions of the eagle and hardware differences.Thanks again! Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I had a mint 3-rivet R.K. years ago and sold it (it was zinc) It was my understanding that all LW GABs were zinc, no?Nice badges by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) Hi Scott,Had to look to where that comment came from. Yes, all LGCB's were zinc, apparently there was a slightly better quality zinc item that R.K. put out (some think the so-called feinzinc). I notice the R.K. pieces with the pinched rivets seem to be just a little bit better in details and overall quality. When first looking at some of these, they almost resemble buntmetal. I had one of the later ones with the Muk5 style catch and larger round rivets. The quality was still nice, just not as nice as the earlier ones.Hope that answers your question.Tim Edited January 9, 2009 by Tim B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Thanks Tim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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