saschaw Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Here's a large sized miniature of the "Abzeichen f?r Beobachter auf Marine-Flugzeugen", of about 41 x 26 mm. I think this is still to be considered "miniature" and not a "prinzen size"?! But I think this actually doesn't really matter. What matters: is this an old original one or a modern, faked item? I'm not sure about it as I'm pretty unaware of aviation badges, didn't even knew that size - never seen such a thing, neither as genuine nor as fake - that's a good sign, isn't it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferg1 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Hi, I would say that the badge is a modern copy. I have seen several of these in various marine flieger formats. Ferg1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 ... because the quality is simply not there at all... what few real miniatures I have seen have been of extremely high quality. I'm not talking 16mm stickpins.... I'm talking 20-33mm minis. I shall attempt to pull up a pix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 OK, here's a nice sample of "Prinzen" pieces, with one 20mm mini on the far left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Reverse of the grouping.ALSO! I have never, ever seen a cliche, or "stamped" badge that was real that wasn't an official issue piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Hmm okay, thanks though. But are those known as fakes? If faked, there should be some more out, actually?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferg1 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 There are more out there ......... in fact there are a couple on Eb*y right now ,marine flieger badges in this case and Halbgrosse form too , look to be from the same stock ! Ferg1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Saschaw, that's always the way it seems to go with these copies.... firsy one, then another.... then suddenly they're all over eBay and the fairs....The worse part is the fakers are constantly improving their products. Note that the Prussian Pilot Badge fake floating around now has the correct Juncker mark, but had the wrong pin..... now this same piece is out on eBay with a modified pin. Still not right, but they never quit trying!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) This example is not in any way related to the one above, but as it's my father's as well and the same award, I'll post it here - as a "kompensation" for the badge above. It came with many other decoration from the collction of an elderly collector who sold off threw us his collection via eBay last year, and this badge is one of the things we managed to get for our own. I hope you like it - honestly, I'd wonder if this one wasn't right... Edited April 30, 2008 by saschaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) The rear, by the way nicely engraved with "Leutnant z. See d. Res. Ernst SchwarzFlugzeugbeobachter II. Seefliegerabtlg. # 1845"The pin seems to be a poor repair, but I don't know when it was made. You still like the badge, don't you? Edited April 30, 2008 by saschaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) Last picture, without the needle covering the engravement. As the collection came with a handfull nice medal bars and I didn't ask the collector if anything belonged together - he wouldn't have known it, seems he didn't bother such "things" like history - is there any chance to get to know what awards this Lt. z.S. d.R. Ernst Schwarz was awarded? There might be his medal bar in dad's box, I just don't know what to look for. At least I couldn't find him amung the Z?hringer guys... Just for interrest, what price would a piece like this make nowadays? It's not maker amrked and the pin damaged, but anything else seems perfectly good to me. Edited April 30, 2008 by saschaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Here's a large sized miniature of the "Abzeichen f?r Beobachter auf Marine-Flugzeugen", of about 41 x 26 mm. I think this is still to be considered "miniature" and not a "prinzen size"?! But I think this actually doesn't really matter. What matters: is this an old original one or a modern, faked item? I'm not sure about it as I'm pretty unaware of aviation badges, didn't even knew that size - never seen such a thing, neither as genuine nor as fake - that's a good sign, isn't it?! Hello!Looks not good.All the bestNesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 No way to tell his awards since he was not commissioned during the war.Ernst Schwarz-- born 22 October 1887. In the army until May 1915, when he transferred to the navy. Vizeflugmeister 25.7.17. aD 21.1.20. Char. Lt zS dR 21.7.21He served in Seeflieger Abteilung II from January 1916 to March 1918, and then in the Fernaufkl?rungsstaffel to war's end.I am NOT a big fan of engraved items-- since I have seen far too many that were fake, and even more horrifying, far too many original piecess that have been destroyed by being "enhanced." But I like yours. The engraving is good, and has been IN that badge since it was made-- early 1920s? Verrrrry nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted May 1, 2008 Author Share Posted May 1, 2008 Rick, it's great you like it. I hadn't doubts about it at all, but confirmation though's always nice. Thanks for the addet information, that's yet something. You say "no way to tell" - but if you stumble about him in any WWI list, that would be a great help. There was e.g. at least one bar with the collection that looked extremely navy-ish, but with a Z?hringer 3bX it cannot be his. As cannot be those with royal or principle house order of Hohenzollern, Saxon albrecht, Bavarian MVO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 The badge is interesting and a closer match to period badges. But I am really put-off by the pin and clasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K. Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I like everything about it!Like RR, when I see engraving on the reverse, I usually walk away, but this inscription appears acceptable. Certainly a replaced hing, pin and catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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