Awards of the Indian "Princes"

[Ed_Haynes]

Breathtaking

And, believe it or not, Gerd, the scan doesn't really do it justice.

[Hendrik]

... and a little addition to this wonderful thread :

THE TRIPURA 1939-1945 WAR SERVICE MEDAL

Sadly without ribbon which might be yellow with red edges and a central band of of red-white-red.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Ed_Haynes]

... and a little addition to this wonderful thread :

THE TRIPURA 1939-1945 WAR SERVICE MEDAL

Sadly without ribbon which might be yellow with red edges and a central band of of red-white-red.

Cheers,

Hendrik

A nice medal for which, like most States' medals, the ribbon is much rarer than the medal, and the medals aren't at all common. A friend has a nice group with the Tripuira medal included. Let me see if I have a scan and he'll let me post it.

[Ed_Haynes]

BUNDI: Accession Medal, 1945 (?)

McClenaghan, #97, pp. 108-9

Based on the recent M&E sale, this ribbon is probably incorrect?

[Ed_Haynes]

Just to compare the three Order of the Sadul Star of Bikaner badges that live with me. Some very interesting comparisons emerge.

[ilja559]

Photo with awards

[ilja559]

2.

[Ed_Haynes]

What, pray tell, does H.H. Raja-i-Rajgan Col. Sir Jagajit Singh Bahadur, Maharaja of Kapurthala, have to do with Thailand???

Or any of the other poor-quality images of Indian 'Princes'???

Edited December 26, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[ilja559]

3.

[Ed_Haynes]

When you are finished posting, I shall shift these roigue posts to where they make sense.

[ilja559]

Ed,I have made these photos in Thailand. To buy the book for 150 dollars because of one photo there is no sense. Quality bad as photographed in shop.

[Ed_Haynes]

OK, (1) these have nothing to do with Thailand and (2) a decision will need to be made regarding photographs "lifted" from a book you do not own.

Please stop posting these where they do not belong.

Where you made them is irrelevant.

[Ed_Haynes]

Above, some of the "Princes" wearing their medals (moved over from another thread). While most of them are wearing only British and other foreign awards, this seemed as good a place as any to place these L-A-R-G-E photos.

Edited December 26, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Hugh]

BAHAWALPUR -- Independence Medal 1947

I recently acquired this trio from Bahawalpur. Ribbon colors appear a little different from McGlenahan in some instances. I suppose there may be variants, which may be discussed in the appendices?

Hugh

[Ed_Haynes]

Tony's ribbon charts leave a lot to be desired. The next edition (to come from Spink, some day) will be much better, on all levels. A lot of these Bahawalpur medals, however, are very recent productions, being made up and marketed under the close direction of a northern UK seller.

[Hugh]

Tony's ribbon charts leave a lot to be desired. The next edition (to come from Spink, some day) will be much better, on all levels. A lot of these Bahawalpur medals, however, are very recent productions, being made up and marketed under the close direction of a northern UK seller.

Alas, the fakes are everywhere. Got any hints on what I should be looking for to distinguish them?

[Ed_Haynes]

Alas, the fakes are everywhere. Got any hints on what I should be looking for to distinguish them?

As they are freshly struck from the original dies, it is hard to say. Lack of age, perhaps? Remember, these common medals should be 60+ years old. Personally, it has just put me off anything Bahawalpur.

The additional complexity is that it SEEMS that given the odd nature of Bahawalpur withing Pakistan, Bahawalpur continued blissfully awarding, creating, and redesigning awards until at least the late 1960s. There are some very odd and deviant specimens of the orders that are either prototypes for or actually awarded post-Integration redesigns.

I'd say that provenance is key. Anothing coming out in the UK should pehaps be avoided, though new conduits are bening opened up.

[Hugh]

As they are freshly struck from the original dies, it is hard to say. Lack of age, perhaps? Remember, these common medals should be 60+ years old. Personally, it has just put me off anything Bahawalpur.

The additional complexity is that it SEEMS that given the odd nature of Bahawalpur withing Pakistan, Bahawalpur continued blissfully awarding, creating, and redesigning awards until at least the late 1960s. There are some very odd and deviant specimens of the orders that are either prototypes for or actually awarded post-Integration redesigns.

I'd say that provenance is key. Anothing coming out in the UK should pehaps be avoided, though new conduits are bening opened up.

Thanks, Ed. I'm just not sure about these. They look oldish, but I learned years ago in Taiwan that faking antiquity is no great challenge for the specialist. Our rep there strongly discouraged me from buying Chinese antiques there, saying "I made my first few millions faking these things."

[anand singh]

At the cost of slight digression,  I bought the book Indian Princely Medals by Tony McClenaghan in the hope that it would serve as a start point on the subject of medals of Princely states.

 

This book is a disappointment to say the least. Awful pictures, and scanty information, this thread has better pictures & info than the book !

 

I'd caution all not to venture to purchase this book. 

 

[Gordon Craig]

Anand,

Thanks for your comments on Indian Princely Medals.  I've considered buying several times but didn't because I had never actually handled a copy.  I'll take your advice.

Regards,

Gordon

 

[oamotme]

Gentlemen,

I would beg to disagree. No book is perfect but in this instance at least there is a book from which to work with. In this regard IPM is well worth buying - for a serious collector it is a useful springboard into the morass of such awards. Unless and until another edition or another book is published then IPM is a good source. I am sure that the author would acknowledge it is not perfect but as with all research you can only publish what you have.

I know that in my own research I have published errors but these have been pointed out to me and thereby our knowledge grows.

Kind regards,

Owain  

PS I have a modest collection of Bahawalpur medals and I am sure that some may be of dubious ancestry!

 

[heusy68]

Hello Gentlemen,

 

I have to disagree with Anand Singh,

 

I have to agree with my friend Owain,

 

No book is never perfect, especially in a so large wide topic than Indian States Awards. I'am a collector for more than 30 years, and I purchased the book of Mr McClenaghan in the late 1990ies. It is the onliest book of its kind. Yes most the photo are black and white, as it was then the most, in published books. Yes there is awards for which Mr McClenaghan never obtain photo, but yet, he got the text, so he listed them. Over the years, I have luckily been able sometimes to puchase award that in his book are only listed by a description by words : yet these description are often accurate, like it was for a group of Hyderabad I bought in the course of 2023.

 

So, and because in the late 1990ies I had a written correspondance with Tony McClenaghan, I think we should all, pay tribute to his immense contribution to this very specific field of phaleristic ( I know his books was about more than 30 years of research and travelling trough India, a country he loved so much, with visiting former Maharajah's Office's and getting to get access to pre-1947 States record, that was certainly far from being easy, and nowday would likely be almost impossible, as the people who helped him in his task in the 1970ies, and 80ies and 90ies are likely not with us anymore, these people, we got to pay tribute to them also, they were first hand witnesses ). I just hope that one day, another book will complete his, yet Ed Haynes (which I had correspondance and exchange of photo trough email) for long time, I was hoping that one day Ed would publish a book that would have completed the book published by Tony McClenaghan. Ed published a very very good book on the Awards of the Republic of India, and according to our correspondance, he wished to publish a book on Pakistan, maybe Nepal, Bhutan  and Maldives, but yet nothing has come.

 

Those who know me, that when I do a post, I like to add photo to feed the topic. So I earlier spoke about a yet undisclosed photo of a Hyderabad Award, so I can present you the Medal Group of the Nawab Mir Nawaz Jung Bahadur who was Finance Minister of Hyderabad ( a country that had a seat at the UN till May 1948 ), with Tamgha e Asafia on left hand side ( Medal of the Asafiah 2nd Class ). It is a very very rarerly seen award. The 3rd Medal is Hyderabad WW2 Victory Medal, the 4th Medal is Hyderabad Silver Jubilee 1936.

 

May I suggest to Anand Singh, that it is always more constructive, to bring constructive criticism to the story (and with photo, it is always better, as it sparks interest in the community of collectors).

 

In the book about India Princely States Awards there was no photo of the Hyderabad Tamgha e Asafia, but there was a correct accurate description.

 

By the way, and because I have seen 1 such a copy. It seems to exist a 2nd printing of the book of Tony McClenaghan on India States Awards, with most of the photos, off centred => like a bit blured. Was there a 2nd printing in India at a later stage in the 2000-2010, with photo far from being as clear as in the legit 1st Edition. If this is such a book that Anand Singh had bought, then I know the photos are not clear ( in that subesquent edition, or re-printing of the original book ).

 

Regards to all.

 

    Emmanuel

Edited December 28, 2023 by heusy68

[oamotme]

Emanuel,

Well said & thank you for sharing these images of the Hyderabad awards.

Happy new year to one and all.

Owain

[Gordon Craig]

Emmanuael and Owain,

Thank you for your views in the book on Princely Medals.  

re Emmanuels question about a reprint of the book in India.  That is a possibility.  When I live in New Delhi some time ago there were many pirated copies of books for sale in the local markets.

Regards,

Gordon