One more imperial medal bar - regards from an old fool

[saschaw]

Here's the medal bar set I mentioned in the Hohenzollern-Saxony-Bavaria bar thread. It has a W?rttemberg Friedrichs order's knight's cross IInd class, a wonderfull early piece by one of the jewelers, followed by an EK II, an Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer, a Bavarian jubilee medal for the army, a Prussian red cross medal 3rd class and a M1913 Prussian long service award IInd class. I'm not sure about the bar, if it's fine and untouched (don't think so), if it's a complete put-together (think this neither) or if it has been played with (most likely to me). The felt backing is a modern one, that for sure.

In the collection there was as well a bunch of ribbon bars but I didn't ask the men what belonged together and what didn't - he would not have known that at all, given his "care" for the things. I found two bars (that make an apparently set) that are quite similar to this medal bar. I'm not sure but they might make a set, but there're some very strange discrepancies. At least one of the long service devices on the ribbon bars is wrong replaced, but I'm neither happy with the Prussian medal on the bar. The last position on the ribbon bar doesn't mind me much, a Silesian Egale might have been worn as a pin back but though with the ribbon on the bars - stranger things happened. No problem with the 1939 war merit cross as youngest of all awards. But: a big problem with the Bavarian MMO on the ribbon bar. Is it possible that was worn on the button hole, and is missing therefore on the medal bar? The bar seems to be Bavarian, though he wears the W?rttemberger in front of the EK II - very strange, isn't it?!

As I said, I'm stunned on this for months and appreciate any help and ideas. That bars makes me going nuts.

[saschaw]

The ribbon bars...

[Brian R]

I can't beleive he'd be wearing the W?rttemberg Friedrichs order's knight's cross IInd class in front of the EK2 after 1934, but wouldn't also be wearing the MVO. If he was weraing the MVO on his button hole than the Friedrichs order would probably be placed after the EK, per regulations.

[Stogieman]

Well, if nothing else we have learned to "never say never".... the precedence is certainly not in keeping with the regs; but how many times have we seen that violated before?

Brian's point is very important though.... if he has the honor cross I don't think the ribbon bars would be his.... I am not aware of any Royal Bavarian awards given post 1934.... but I suppose even that is possible since the princes were still actively participating in Germany (for awhile at least...)

[Guest Rick Research]

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

None of these make me happy. Nothing easier than mixing up tabbies to "match" something Very Screwy Indeed.

A 1911 Luitpold Jubilee Medal like this one could have been given to a Bavarian "national" in the navy or Schutztruppen-- hence the "Prussian" (Reichs) NCOs' XII... but the WF3bX makes NO sense at all on the medal bar to such a BAVARIAN person with only the EK2.

While I would never tear apart such things, my best guess is Very Very Old

Idiot Monkey Paws meddling.

[saschaw]

Thanks for your opinions. In a German forum where I showed it too, someone told me that it was possible someone wore the MVO in the button hole - his great grand father did so well into the 30s! I knew that from the MMJO where it was common but wasn't sure about MVO. With that additional puzzle part I believe they do make a set but have been played with - at the medal bar's backing and anyhow with the long service awards - but no idea what there would match. The medal on the medal bar does not fit there in all our humble opinions, and with a hole in the ribbon I think there used to be a Wehrmacht LS award, most likely. If anyone wants to make guesses about that, please don't hesitate.

[Bernd D]

I found a buttonhole decoration. THis photo was made 1941 at a parade of WWI veterans.

You can see the MVO 4 with crown and swords clearly.

Nothing ist impossible!

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents,

if the two mini ribbon bars are supposed to belong to the same person,

then why would one have a Luftwaffe Eagle, the other a Heer eagle

Surly that defines no relation to the bar??

Kevin in Deva.

[webr55]

Another problem: An NCO XII decoration on the medal bar - but only a 4-11 year Wehrmacht LS award on the ribbon bars?

I think the ribbon bars may be ok. My guess is the medal bar might have been a late "reconstruction", by the vet himself or even by his descendants - maybe even after 1945...

Edited June 8, 2008 by webr55

[Guest Rick Research]

Bernd-- that is a VERY interesting photo!!!!! He is wearing his BMV4XKr as if it was a Max Joseph-Ritter! But the "fashion statement" there is with a ribbon bar and not a medal bar. I cannot imagine anybody wearing full medals with anything like this NOT on the medal bar.

[Bernd D]

Bernd-- that is a VERY interesting photo!!!!! He is wearing his BMV4XKr as if it was a Max Joseph-Ritter! But the "fashion statement" there is with a ribbon bar and not a medal bar. I cannot imagine anybody wearing full medals with anything like this NOT on the medal bar.

Rick, he didn?t wear it on his medalbar. Same person in 1933. Have a look at the medalbar and the neck.

Unfortunately the BMV4XKr is hiding on the first picture. On the second I do not see a BMVO on the ribbonbar

Bernd

[Guest Rick Research]

Do you have that nutty d.L./d.R. officer's name?

Is that not a 1920s Rupprecht Medal in 2nd position on his 1933 photo-- and yet NEITHER BMV4XKr OR EK2 on it!!!!

That guy was CRAZY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Rick Research]

Here's a similar WEIRD one--

Here as a 1920-22 Bavarian Landespolizei officer in W?rzburg is the unfortunate Wilhelm Edler von Stubenrauch (1887-1950), later a Luftwaffe Generalleutnant:

(horribly airbrushed--note how his ears came out different sizes)

With only THREE ribboned medals-- he's left his 1911 Luitpold Jubilee OFF AND... he is NOT wearing his 1914 EK1 !!!

But these are really really CRAZY "fashion statements."

[Bernd D]

Do you have this d.L./d.R. officer's name?

Is that not a 1920s Rupprecht Medal in 2nd position on his 1933 photo-- and yet NEITHER BMV4XKr OR EK2 on it!!!!

That guy was CRAZY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your are right. He is wearing the Jubilee Medal, Rupprecht Medal in bronze, Kyffh?user, Wedding medal and Landwehr LS 1. class on the bar.

He received his EK II in 1914 and BMVO4XKr in 1914. He was a Major dLw in the Bavarian 3. FAR during WWI.

Nothing is impossible. I also have a bar of a later General (WWII) who is not wearing three war decorations (2 from WWI and 1 WWII) and not the Centenar medal.