Ribbon bar purchase from Germany

[Paul C]

One of my purchases from my trip to Germany. I can ID some of the ribbons, but need help on the others. Thanks.

1. Saxon w/ swords ?

2. Saxon ?

3. EK2

4. ?

5. Red Eagle Order

6. Hindenburg

7. Kaiser Centential

8. ?

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Edited October 13, 2005 by Paul Chepurko

[Stogieman]

Saxon Merit Order with Swords (probably 2. klasse)

Saxon Honor Cross, or Saxon Long Service (tough call with this pix)

1914 EK2

Lippe Cross for War Merit with incorrect swords attached

(Possibly a Lippe Order with swords on war ribbon??)

Red Eagle (?) Possibly Hamburg Hanseatic?

Honor Cross, no Swords

Centennial Medal

Lippe House Order, Peacetime/Statute ribbon

Ca. WW1 with the 2 Saxon awards taking precedence. So you have Saxon with a Lippe connection somewhere!

Nice Bar!!!!

[Stogieman]

Oh yeah.... can we see the back as well?

[Paul C]

Rick, Thanks for the help. The back is gray. I will post a picture later.

[JensF.]

I think the second one must be a Long Service Dec. from Sachsen and the other one is a Hamburg Hanseatic Cross. A Red Eagle would be in the wrong position as long as the peacetime Lippe order is at last.

[Paul C]

back

[Stogieman]

Is there no glow to thos threads Paul? Kinda sucks that we now have to deal with the inquisition on these things.

[Paul C]

No Glow.

[Stogieman]

The thing I can't figure out is the stitching pattern. Looks like 2 different people stitched the top and bottom!

[Paul C]

I see what you mean. The only thing I can think of is the these were done by hand and that this pattern is just the preference of the person doing the work.

[Guest Rick Research]

It's probably OK. The ribbons are extremely minty fresh... just getting TWITCHY at all the new generation parts frauds out there. I've never seen that type hinge/pin attachment before. Bring it by the next time you're traveling North and I will do my personal voodoo type things upon it.

Now, I think that IS a Red Eagle, which with the Lippe Order maybe be key to IDing this. Chances are that is an 1870 (with 1897) rather than a non-combatant Hindenburg Cross-- and what a Merit X and no Albert X suggests to me is

Classic Beamter

since they generally did NOT receive an Albert first in the usual progression, but got a Merit Order first.

BUT... question remains whether this is a SV3bX (or SV3aX) and there WAS nothing else on the medal bar-- in which case TWO non-Saxon peacetime Orders but no Saxon peacetime seems odd orrrrrrrrrr as was very frequently done by the cheapo Saxons, swords were "added" to the SAME CLASS, making a peacetime SV3a/b AND a wartime SV3a/b ONE award rather than two.

I suspect that is what happened here, and this fellow simply got Xs added to his peacetime award.

The Xs on the Lippe Detmold War Merit Cross are completely incorrect.

Will see if I can find him from the "Xs added to" rolls.

[Guest Rick Research]

I've been through the entire Saxon 1914 (which is actually December 1913, go figure) and still only came up with a perfect pre-WW1 match to ONE 1870 officer, who was dumped out in April 1914 at 65 and shows as neither any WW1 service at all nor Xs to his Saxon MMO. So no joy from the last awards shown peacetime Saxon Rank List, I'm afraid.

[Paul C]

Thanks Rick, SO this bar is dead as far as tracing the Officer, correct?

[Stogieman]

I think there's a 1917/18 saxon Rangliste out there, but I don't remember what (if any) awards it would have listed. probably not anything war-time....... Funny too, it actually belonged to Immelmann's Commanding officer. There was only one and he had neatly signed the cover of the book!

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

Is it not possible that the last ribbon could be to a Lippe Detmold lifesaving medal, or even (a real stretch) a 1888-1905 series Lippe Detmold civil merit medal?

Just wondering,

Wild Card

[Tom Y]

The thing I can't figure out is the stitching pattern. Looks like 2 different people stitched the top and bottom!

I believe the apparent difference in stitching is dues to the upper edge being loose when the other was stitched, so the lower edge was stitched from the back, er, front, er, ... you know what I mean.

[Guest Rick Research]

I couldn't find any match with the peacetime Lippe for anything. Of course, as we see from the large but STILL incomplete number of awards to PRUSSIANS gazetted in the Milit?rwichenblatt for 1914 after the final peacetime Rank List came out in May, in the case of Saxony, there was no peacetime list showing awards after December 1913.

The 1918 Saxon list is simply by seniority ofcommissions-- no awards at all.

Lots and lots of gaps out there.