medal bar of Dr. Zacharias?

[Komtur]

Hallo forumites,

today I got this bar from a dealer. He told me it comes from a privat household from a person telling him, it is the bar of his grandfather and "Feldarzt" (?) Dr. Zacharias.

No question, the sewing is far from Godet style, the metal plate was extended. I is all so homework like, that I can not believe, it is a forgery.

For it is a tuxedo bar, it must be a Saxon person. How can there be the Prussian DAK for officers on this bar? May be for colonial service?

There is unfortunately no matching Zacharias in the Saxon rank lists from 1901, 1907, 1914, the Prussian rank lists of 1904, 1909, 1914, no medical officer in the Ehrenrangliste des Deutschen Heeres, no matching person in the Ordensalmanach 1908/9, no Zacharias in a roll of Saxon medical officers in WWI, mo matching Zacharias in the roll of the Kaiser-Wilhelms-Akademie f?r das milit?r?rztliche Bildungswesen 1910

What do you think of this bar?

Best regards, Komtur.

[Guest Rick Research]

I think he was a Prussian. There is nothing here that suggests a medical officer to me, but rather a career Beamter who was NOT also a d.R. or d.L. officer--only the XXV and no LD2/LD1. With a Red Eagle and not a Crown Order he was in one of the higher career branches.

Too bad it is so ratty. Without a red or blue cloth backing, no way to guess whether it was army or navy.

I think the name is completely wrong. More often than not, it seems like people selling "family" medal bars in Germany have more than 2 grandfathers!

BTW...

is that a "CEJ" I see on the back of the Hindenburg Cross?

If so: may I congratulate you on finding one of the legendary, all but mythical REAL BRONZE Hindenburgs? :jumping:

[Komtur]

... but rather a career Beamter

...think the name is completely wrong. More often than not, it seems like people selling "family" medal bars in Germany have more than 2 grandfathers!

...is that a "CEJ" I see on the back of the Hindenburg Cross?

If so: may I congratulate you on finding one of the legendary, all but mythical REAL BRONZE Hindenburgs?

Thanks Rick!

... I thougt in the same direction, there is no matching Zacharias in the Handbuch f?r den Preu?ischen Hof und Staat 1905, 1909, 1911, 1914 and also in the Handbuch f?r das Deutsche Reich 1918 ...

... so you seem to be right - even if it is a Beamter - wrong name and wrong story.

... are you joking or is that "CEJ" Hindenburg Cross really a special one? The price is "medium" and I think it over giving the bar back to the dealer, because it was offered as a Doctors bar and that?s my special interest.

Best regards, Komtur.

[Guest Rick Research]

Real bronze Hindenburg Crosses-- not bronze colored steel ones-- are the Holy Grail for Hindeburg Cross collectors. Very very rare.

Also: we do not KNOW that this did not belong to a doctor. We just haven't got an accurate identity yet. So.... :rolleyes:

[webr55]

Hard to say, there are several candidates:

Erich Zacharias, Dr. med. from the University of Jena in 1913

Gotthard Zacharias-Langhans, Dr. med. from the University of Straßburg in 1912

Kurt Zacharias (aus Garnsee), Dr. med. from the University of Freiburg in 1906

Paul Zacharias (aus Plön), Dr. med. from the University of Leipzig in 1901

Max Zacharias, Dr. med. from the University of Königsberg in 1890

Edited March 12, 2023 by webr55

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes but this Unknown Person was a career "officer" (or Beamter)---> XXV.

[Komtur]

Hard to say, there are several candidates:

Erich Zacharias, Dr. med. from the University of Jena in 1913

Gotthard Zacharias-Langhans, Dr. med. from the University of Stra?burg in 1912

Kurt Zacharias (aus Garnsee), Dr. med. from the University of Freiburg in 1906

Paul Zacharias (aus Pl?n), Dr. med. from the University of Leipzig in 1901

Max Zacharias, Dr. med. from the University of K?nigsberg in 1890

Thanks, but what source are these names from?

Regards, Komtur.

[webr55]

Thanks, but what source are these names from?

Regards, Komtur.

Library catalogs.

[saschaw]

With a China medal in steel he was not in China. With a GSA medal in steel, noone knows if he was there or wasn't. Komtur, are you sure that's the family's name? It may be his prename...

 

 

Anyway, nice tuxedo bar.

Edited July 28, 2023 by saschaw

[RAO]

I do not believe that this bar carried someone at the tuxedo. ;o) Greetings Mike

[Guest Rick Research]

Stay at home services related to the success of the mission. "Organizing" supplies. Standing on the dock waving good bye: particularly relevaant to the number of awards to elderly Generals. That sort of thing.

As soon as you see TWO steel stay at homes, that is virtually always an indicator of somebody in the War Ministry/Army Corps level support staff because in that sort of position the same officials/technical officers were doing the same jobs at both periods. Regimental "gee I wish I could have gone" baggage packers tended to get (if anything) one or the other.

This cheerful dood ("Mama! I haf finally mine Iron Kross!!!) was a harbor dredging official. He never went ANYWHERE.

Very very close to the medal bar combination above, mid-war.

[Komtur]

This cheerful dood ("Mama! I haf finally mine Iron Kross!!!) was a harbor dredging official. He never went ANYWHERE.

Very very close to the medal bar combination above, mid-war.

Shown here before, but fitting to this thread as another very close combination to that kind of Beamten-bar:

[Guest Rick Research]

I think they all knew each other from the same office....

But these are exactly the sort of suspects most likely to have souble steels. :cheers:

[Stabsarzt Ia]

Zacharias-Langhans, Dr. Gotthard war 1915 /1916 Marine-Oberassistenzarzt Türkisches Marine-Lazarett Taşkışla und Bosporus-Anatolisches Krankenhaus, EK II Juni 1915, Hamburgische Hanseaten Kreuz 31.1.1916

 

Gruß Stabsarzt

[Komtur]

On 10/03/2023 at 11:35, Stabsarzt Ia said:

Zacharias-Langhans, Dr. Gotthard war 1915 /1916 Marine-Oberassistenzarzt Türkisches Marine-Lazarett Taşkışla und Bosporus-Anatolisches Krankenhaus, EK II Juni 1915, Hamburgische Hanseaten Kreuz 31.1.1916 ...

 

Thank you for this information. But clearly the initial shown order bar could not belong to this person. I am afraid, the name I´ve got from the seller, wasn´t the right one.

 

As discussed before, not a medical officer but a military official (Beamter) is more likely.

 

Regards, Komtur.