Soviet Administering... to Marshal Zhukov's Every Wish

[Guest Rick Research]

Meet then Comrade Major of Administrative Services Vladimir Fedorovich Dubrovin:

[attachmentid=15155]

[Guest Rick Research]

I know, you are thinking: "Administartive? Borrrrrrrrrring!" BUT remember Comrade Lastovka?

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1975

Comrade Dubrovin didn't do so bad for himself:

[attachmentid=15156]

Not bad at all, for 1944-1985!

[Guest Rick Research]

Comrade Dubrovin got himself Liberation of Warsaw and Capture of Berlin Medals which coincide probably significantly with his first Red Star and OPW2:

[attachmentid=15157]

1945 edition Orders Book serial number A 439373

[Guest Rick Research]

The MMM is a 3 November 1944 long service award, and the second ORS is for 15 years circa 1948/49, with the ORB for 20 years circa 1952/54-- mysterious since from other clues (to be revealed later) he was OUT of the army in 1948, but managed to end up with a Veteran of the Armed Forces Medal.

These, of course, will be researched by Dave's Sinister Private Army of Podolsk Elves:

[attachmentid=15158][attachmentid=15159]

Notice the high location for the ORS serial number, because this is the unusual sub-variant (not in Mcdaniel and Schmitt) which has a "belly-button dimple" in the reverse behind the hammer and sickle, so no serial number could be engraved there.

[Guest Rick Research]

Why special personal services at the left elbow of Marshal Zhukov?

Well, although he was at the supreme headquarters of the Soviet Military Administration of occupied Germany...

[attachmentid=15160]

[Guest Rick Research]

... Comrade Dubrovin rated a plane seat back home to bask under the eyes of Generalisimo Stalin at The Big Event

[attachmentid=15161]

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup, a spot in or at the much filmed Great Victory Parade in Moscow!

[attachmentid=15162]

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes, Comraids. What first he had done for General Rokossovsky in Warsaw, he was so good at whatever THAT was that he kept on doing it for Marshal Zhukov--

[attachmentid=15163]

WHATEVER "Department" of Cadres of the 1st White Russian FRONT he was a deputy of under this Colonel, he rated a ticket back to the Big Parade rather than quietly puttering around back in Berlin.

One surmises-- one hopes-- for something

[JBFloyd]

"He polished up the handles so carefully,

that now he is the ruler of the Queen's Navy"

This applies in all services

[Guest Rick Research]

Exactly what I'm anticipating. Who better to have in One's Personal Entourage when entering enemy cities reduced to rubble than THE man in the Front who can arrange a roof that does not leak and clean napkins?

Butler in Chief to His Marshalness? Boswell to his Comrade Johnson? Discreet Arranger of... "escort services?"

Whatever Little Favors he did, he did in "circles" so small and rarified that he wouldn't have had to move to see all 360? of his domain, me hopes!

[Gerd Becker]

So you mean, it won?t make sense to send the order for this group to Alexei?

Nice group, Rick. I am glad, it ended up in your collection

Edited November 8, 2005 by Gerd Becker

[Stogieman]

I was able to look at this today, pretty nice stuff and neat with all the paper. His Evilness had not shipped it to his vault yet. Pretty snazzy!

[NavyFCO]

I'm interested to see what is in this fellow's research when it comes back. When I owned the group, I could have sworn I researched it, but I can't find anything in my research files on it. It was a nice group though - and only one of two that I've owned with the red Occupied Germany stamp in it.

One question that I have is if anyone has seen any proof that the red Victory Over Germany award card was issued only to the participants in the Moscow parade? I have owned a number of these, and they have dates ranging from June through August 1945, and have had numerous different unit stamps- from regiments up through fronts. One group I had was to a General Major who was a "big player" in the war against Japan and his document was dated while he was in Siberia... Did they fly him to Berlin for the parade and back? I'm doubting that. They brought in cadre from a number of fronts, but if you read through some unit histories, the majority of the "bulk" units in the parade were made up of training units from around Moscow. I have a group to a tanker Captain like that at the moment, who I am certain was a participant in the Parade, as his unit history indicates that they were in Moscow on training duties during that time.

My doubts about these being issued for only parade participants stems from two things... First, the number of different dates that you see on them- some even before the "big" parade took place. Second, the number of units that issued these out.

For the second, there's a slim chance that each cadre from each front received X amount of documents to hand out to the participants, but would they really bring all their admin people, stamps and the like all the way to Moscow just to stamp the documents up? It's possible, though I'm not certain how likely it was.

For the first, why all the different dates? And why some with dates BEFORE the parade took place? I would think that most would have dates all within a few days, if not a week or two of each other, but several months?

Could there also be the possibility that a limited number (the Soviet's version of the "collectors edition"... okay, just kidding!) of these documents were shipped to the various fronts, as this was the intended original form for the Victory Over Germany medal? Then, they later switched to the non-red version as it was probably deemed uneconomical to send out all these well-made documents. That could be a good explaination as to why you see these documents with June through August 1945 dates on them, and then the later documents with dates ranging from August 1945 onwards, as the units ran out of the red initial issue ones. ALSO, the only red documents I've owned have been to either senior officers or administrative types... the first ones that would have had the documents issued to them, as they were the closest to the personnel section issuing the documents.

Thus, to sum up my theory... These red documents were the originally intended document for the VoG medal. After all, the VoG medal was a HUGE deal... The Soviets had just defeated the greatest enemy known to man! But, after an initial "run" of say, half a million, they discovered that they weren't cost effective to produce and so they switched to the thin card examples. The red versions though were still shipped to the fronts in limited numbers, and were issued out until the stocks ran out. Most of the guys that received these red ones were staff officers (anyone seen one to an enlisted?) who were the first in line to get their medals documents because it was an easy walk over to Comrade Medal Issue's desk and get your paperwork. Once they ran out of these documents, they switched to the white version and that was that.

The reason so many of these ended up with Victory Parade participants is that they wanted the VoG medal worn at the parade. Since it was illegal to wear medals that aren't documented, they used these red documents to issue them to the parade participants that were stationed around Moscow, even though bundles of them had already been shipped to the various fronts for issuance.

Thus, according to my theory, Comrade Dubrovin never left Berlin. He was there on the administrative side of the 1st Belorrussian Front from March/April 1945 through occupation on into 1946. Being that he was an administrative Major, he was one of the first to get his VoG medal issued, and thus received the red card instead of the later one, which would explain the date and stamps of his local unit on this card.

Now, a few questions for you all... Does anyone have any of the later non-red document for the VoG dated either June or July 1945? AND, has anyone owned one of these red documents to a combatant? That might help shed light on my proposed theory.

Dave

Edited November 9, 2005 by NavyFCO

[Guest Rick Research]

The only red cover VoG in my paws before this week is really ratty-- to Senior Sergeant Noga, signed by a HSU and Rifles Division commander:

[attachmentid=15220]

BUT Sergeant Noga was still in the same rank in 1958 in the KGB and eventually made it on active duty in the 1960s to the dizzying height of KGB Leitenant. I assume he was a bigwig's personal driver or valet. (Sniff).

[kimj]

I think you have might be on to something Dave. The red award card was the first version, but who got it? Any real link to the Victory Parade has yet to show up. Other than RED Square - RED award card not much is solid..

My red award card was given to a sapper in the 65th Army and is signed by P.V. Shvydkoi, head of engineer troops. The sapper was a senior sergeant and no desk jockey. He got in the army july -41 and got out october -45, a couple of bravery awards richer. Oddly enough there is no stamp on his card. It's dated 16 june 1945.

Perhaps the Victory medal was indented to be more exclusive. Only awarded to a small number of deserving heroes? 100 000 cards made and shipped to the troops in Germany?

/Kim

[Dudeman]

The red covered award cards may have been issued to Victory Parade participants and support people, and then opened up to others.

A "pro" for the theory is the four red-covered ones I've seen are all signed by general officers. I've got one in front of me signed by a General Staff 1-star and dated 23 JUN 45. The card is numbered #00056649. I also THINK I remember seeing a full cavalier set with a red-covered victory booklet. The soldier's bio mentioned his marching in the Victory Parade. I'm 70% sure on this one.

A "con" is, I could find none of the four participants in books listing veterans who had marched in the actual parade. Granted I don't have a complete listing, but I have books and journals listing at least several hundred of the actual participants.

Good discussion.

[Guest Rick Research]

And today the VOLUMINOUS personnel records, Award Record Cards, and citations for Comrade Dubrovin all arrived. Once more salaams and to the Sinister Network of Comrade Dave!

So this goes up to the "researched Groups" sub-forum-- though it will take me a while to wade through, what with TWO of my own in today as well.

Let's see...

Vladimir Fedorovich Dubrovin was born 5 November 1910 in Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine. Only got to 5th class education in Odessa, 1923 (or 1926 in another file version) before becoming a laborer at age 13/?16!

Bizarrely, he BEGAN his military career on 10 October 1932 as a Clerk-Instructor AND Deputy (so nice, on his first day) Director of Military Education in the city of Frunze in the Khirgiz Soviet Socialist Republic.

Let's see, just some teasers before I get to the full story--

his MMM was personally approved by Marshal Rokossovsky (who probably got him his Polish Cross of Valor in 1946, just a little "thanks" for all those "special little duties.")

And in 1945 our intrepid comrade found himself the Military Commandant of the "city of Khainikhen, Leiptsig Region." Well, Leipzig is no problem, but durned if I can figure out what "Xaйниxeн" REALLY was... in GERMAN!

[Guest Rick Research]

I'll add the scans in later.

Awards Record Card:

Orders BooK number 439373 (check)

Order of the Red Star # 687,862 on 4 August 1944 per 1st White Russian Front

Military Merit Medal #1,449,903 for long service on 3 November 1944

Order of the Patriotic War 2nd Class # 491,888 on 29 April 1945 per 1st White Russian Front

Order of the Red Star #2,829,199 on 24 June 1948 for long service

Order of the Red Banner # 388,681 on 20 April 1953 for long service

Medal for Victory Over Germany, Medal for Capture of Berlin, Medal for 30 Years of the Red Army, and

Polish Cross of Valour per 24 June 1946

as of 26 July 1953.

Commissions

Technical-engineer 2nd Rank 8 September 1938 = Lieutenant (so 6 years in the ranks!)

Technical-engineer 1st Rank 17 May 1939 = Senior Lieutenant

Intendant 3rd Rank 18 March 1940 (1942 on another copy of his files) = Captain

Intendant 2nd Rank 28 November 1942 = Major

Major of Administrative Services 18 April 1943

Lieutenant Colonel of Administrative Services 3 November 1949

Joined CPSU 1938 as member 1,856,856

Wife #2 Mariya Denisovna Popova born 1919

WhuOOO another wife on another file #1 Valentina Vasilievna Dubrovina... gots to compares the varied and conflicting!!!

Retired 31 October 1955 to city of Kuibishev and a "pensioner" at age 45

[Guest Rick Research]

Assignments (working from FOUR different files)

10.10.32 Clerk-Instructor & Deputy Director of Military Instruction, Frunze City Military Commissariat, Khirgiz SSR

15.10.33 Senior Clerk at Frunze City MilCom as above "for urgent matters"

October 1934 (version1) or July 1937 AND September 1938 (version2) Case Producer ("Deloproizvoditel' ") Frunze CMC = informer???

1938 Assistant (Pomotsshnik) to the Commander of the 3rd Department , Frunze CMC

16.3.40 Commander of 3rd Department, Frunze CMC

1942 Commander of the 4th Department, 8th Rifles Division , SAVO

7.1.42 "admitted with execution of office" as Commander of 4th Dept of 458th Rifles Division

6.3.43 "engaged in creating unit cadres of the 13th Army"

June 1943 Deputy Commander of Cadres Unit creating units of the Central Front

3.6.43 Senior Assistant to Commander of Cadres Unit for creating units of the Central Front

30.10.43 Assistant to Commander of 1st Dept. Cadres Units 1st White Russian Front

October 1945 Deputy Commander of Unit Cadres for Staff of the 1st White Russian Front

24.5.46 Military Commandant for the city of "Khainikhen" as Raion-Senior Soviet Military Administrator of Federal (illegible illegible) in Germany

14.10.47 Officer of 1st Department, Kuibishev Oblast Military Commissariat

26.10.47 (illegible) to Priboloisky Military District(version1) version 2: detached to there 13.9.47

31.10.55 discharged to reserves i.e. retired (version1)/version 2 on 23.11.55 for reason of illness, to reside in Leninsky Military Commissariat, city of Kuibishev

[Stogieman]

Very adept at opening doors, providing "entertainment" and other various and sundry tasks our man was.

[Guest Rick Research]

For a political system built on homicidal paranoia, it never ceases amazing me how OFTEN "discrepancies" show up in laboriously scribbled records endlessly copied and "checked" and double-triple-quadruple "checked" and "verified," sifting for Gotchas.

Dubrovin's 1953 Award Record Card:

[attachmentid=25623]

[Guest Rick Research]

Orders and MMM all neatly entered, Capture of Berlin, VoG, 1948... even the Polish Cross of Valour:

[attachmentid=25624]

[Guest Rick Research]

Whoopsie!

[attachmentid=25625]

Hello! Liberation of Warsaw Medal issued by that self same Kuibishev command.

[Guest Rick Research]

Which is why More Is Always Better--

There are no less than FOUR versions of Dubrovin's personnel file included in what just came in... which I am in the process of "collating" and working out discrepancies and adding in details.

This early version card is the ONLY place that mentions his Liberation of Warsaw Medal entitlement:

[attachmentid=25626]

Yup. That's it kind of doodled over there sideways at left in the margin.

[attachmentid=25627]

So he had a "certificate" for it 15 June 1946, received the actual Medal award card 4 June 1948... and it is omitted accidentally from his 26 June 1953 ARC.

So I'm wondering if somewhere in the scribbled squiggles I will find a fuller explanation of the "illness" that caused his retirement in 1955-- considering that he lived on for more than 30 years AFTER that. He didn't look like a boozer, and stealing the mess silver would have landed him in the Gulag, so I wonder if he just ran afoul of the early Khruschev regime politically as a Zhukovite or something and that was a pretext to run him out.

He would, after all, have had innumerable Tales To Tell from his wartime glory days... and by 1955 the firing squads were running out of ammunition....

[Guest Rick Research]

Then again...

Joined Soviet Army 1932... retired 1955... anyway I look at that, I get 23 years.

1955

-

1932

==23

and yeeeeeeeeet:

[attachmentid=25628]

So there's an extra 2 years out there, somewhere!