Zeppelin Group

[Luftmensch]

Thought I?d post this Zeppelin group here, since the highlight for me is the bullion Zeppelin Commemorative badge.

I will leave it up to Rick whether it belongs in ?Weimar.?

This is the bullion Zeppelin badge to Kapit?n Hans von Schiller, XO and skipper of the Graf Zeppelin.

Schiller was:

executive officer of L 6 from November 6, 1914 until April 30, 1915 (66 sorties);

executive officer of L 11 from June 8, 1915 until February 5, 1916 (56 sorties);

executive officer of L 30 fra May 30, 1916 until December 28, 1916 (57 sorties);

executive officer of L 54 from September 16, 1917 until July 19, 1918 (27 sorties);

and executive officer of L 72 July 9, 1920 (1 testflight), for a total of 221 sorties.

His commanding officer on all these Zeppelins was Kapit?nleutnant Buttlar-Brandenfels, the Zep ace

who got the PLM from the Kaiser for his work over London...

Edited November 19, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

The Zep badge is backed on a medium gray wool. Was this worn on his Zeppelin Company tunic? or was he in the Luftwaffe later? I can find no photos of it in wear but worn it was.

Here is Schiller over his console on a wartime mission.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

Here are some photos of Schiller a few years later as exec officer on board LZ 127.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

This is NOT his coffee cup in the last photo! but something he took as a souvenir for his family.

At today's values, you could retire on one of these table services...

Edited November 19, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

Here is one of two pairs of binoculars Schiller used, the other pair is in the Zeppelin Museum. They were given after WW2, along with all these other pieces, to German friends of the Schillers who had emigrated to the U.S. in the 19-teens.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

Apart from serving as exec officer and skipper of the two Graf Zeppelins LZ 127 and LZ 130, he also flew on the Hindenburg, LZ 129, in what capacity I'm not sure because I haven't yet located all the bestselling books he wrote between the wars of his exploits.

Over Manhattan...

The observation deck next to the "Speisesaal" on the Hindenburg.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

The "Speisesaal"

The "Gesellschaftsraum"

Among bags of correspondence is some Zeppelin mail, including a letter to Schillers' wife Ellen in Friedrichshafen...

Edited November 19, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

He gave his American friends lots of souvenirs.

Schiller was often in the U.S. between the wars on his flights and visited his family's friends. His daughter Elizabeth was here once when she was escorted to a dance at the Naval Academy by the present owners uncle, who would fly dirigibles in the USN. Schiller gave everyone private tours of the Graf in 1928, which generated fond memories.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

If anyone has Schiller's post-WW1 service record I'd be interested in knowing if he was in the Luftwaffe, or was this worn on his post-1933 Zeppelin Company uniform? The backing wool is a slightly darker and bluer gray than the Zeppelin bullion badge.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

After the war, his American friends were helpful getting food and money to the Schillers through mutual contacts.

The photograph above documents a visit with the Schillers by the Uncle's brother who was posted to Germany in 1949 with the U.S. Air Force. Hans is on the left.

The story goes that his mother and grandmother had urged him to check on the Schillers, after the two women had received distressing letters about the devastation in Germany. So he took a couple fellow officers--who wanted to meet the Captain--on a car trip. Against regulations, the officers made a pit stop at the base exchange and filled the trunk of their car with food and other goodies.

When they arrived at the Schillers they were very warmly greeted, and hadn't even opened the trunk yet to reveal the contraband. When the trunk was finally opened the brother reached in and pulled out an enormous ham, which caused the ladies present to swoon. They said they hadn't seen so much meat at one time since before the war! After a happy visit lasting many hours, Hans von S. asked the brother to walk with him in private, at which time he made him a present of what he described as ""night binoculars used while flying Zeppelins". It was a gift the American would treasure until he died a few years ago.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

In more peaceful days...

A member of the "Quiet Birdmen"

Frau von Schiller holds up a bauble she wrote "was given to him in Munich in 1965 along with Werner von Braun."

Edited November 19, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

Here are Hans and Ellen together.

And I saved the BEST until last...

Hans' TROPHY CABINET!!!

Edited November 19, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Guest Rick Research]

The 1928 Naval Officers Association (M.O. V.-- member #3968) showed him as Airship pilot and Airship Station Leader of the Berlin "Severa" GmbH company at Sea Flying Station Holtenau.

That same issue of the directory contains a historical listing of ALL naval airship officers, with him as the 35th officer recruited to that service.

In 1935 his former rank was still shown as KaptLt zS aD, but as Airship pilot and "Handels-Bevollm?chtigter" for the Deutsche Zeppelin Reederei in Frankfurt am Main.

1937 edition listed him as Luftwaffe Major der Reserve and Prokurist there for Zeppelin

1939 listed him as the B?rgermeister... with address World Airport (Weltlufthafen) Rhine/Main, Frankfurt am Main-- confusing me since that sounds as if he was the Mayor of the airfield! (?)

1960 edition listed him as Luftwaffe Oberstleutnant der Reserve au?er Dienst, living at Friedrichshafen am Bodensee, where he was in 1963 as co-owner of the Bau- und-Kunststoffgrosshandel ,,H. v. Schiller u- Th?mmel K.G." and air travel advissor (Luftfahrtbeirat) of the Federal Air Traffic Ministry (Bundesluftfahrtministerium)

I then have a very large gap in whgat had become the MOH eV directories until 1983, by which time he was dead (pre-1980 since deaths from then to 1983 are shown)... and his widow was listed as surviving honorary member.

I saw (catalog) a double breasted Feldgrau Litewka offered for sale in the 1980s that had an army bullion badge directly embroidered into the tunic.

The color on your scan looks more army field gray than air force gray blue--but then it scans as the same looking as his Luftwaffe pilot badge, so must have been worn with that.

Being remote links and not posted here, about half your scans are showing only as little boxes with unhappy red Xs. Coming back and forth to the thread shows some of them randomly each time tried, but not all at once and some I have yet to be able to see. :(

[Luftmensch]

Wow! Great details, Rick. Many thanks. I saw that same Litewka at SOS last year. Very exotic. Schiller's metal badge is in his trophy case which, I presume, is still with the family. And I love the haphazard way our hero has laid out his baubles. Sounds like he led a busy and successful life after the wars...

I'm not clear what you mean about remote links, Rick...everything is coming up immediately for me. Is it simply slow loading from Photobucket? How can I improve that? I'm following my SOP and haven't had a problem before...

Edited November 20, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Guest Rick Research]

(Eeyore voice) Oh its prolly just me and my antiquated equipment.

Scans posted here in each reply only produce the same effect when there are so many of them it takes forever to download. But unhappy little red Xs are signals that the download has failed-- at least from my end viewing.

[Flying Tiger]

Wearing the NEVER Encountered (at least on the eastern side of the Atlantic!) LZ-insigned cap! Remarkable!

[Flying Tiger]

The color on your scan looks more army field gray than air force gray blue--but then it scans as the same looking as his Luftwaffe pilot badge, so must have been worn with that.

This might bear more research: I have seen both badges in-hand and there is a marked difference in the gray background. That of the Naval Zep badge is much lighter. Could it have been worn on a Weimar tunic of some sort? Construction certainly looks like many of the early 1930's pieces I have seen: just have not seen much in bullion with strict provenance to circa 1920. In any event, a stunning piece. As for the Luft badge: possibly a Pilot-Observer with the 2 colors to the bullion or just a difference in material? At the MAX I saw 3 or 4 bullion (Real: from reputable Sellers) Pilot badges and the eagle and wreaths were all made of the same type/color bullion...

[Luftmensch]

Good questions!

I am amazed at the dearth of good uniform shots of the Weimar airshippers. They are always bundled up in shapeless flying coats. Where were their PR handlers? :cheeky:

[Guest Rick Research]

Luftwaffe Combined Pilot-Observer would be silver and gold. The scan--when I last saw it was silver and dark silver representing the silver and gray/black of a metal Pilot's Badge.

If there had been large holes in the airship badge border, I might have thought it could have been worn on a gray leather "U boat" style leather coat... but there'd be no way to get fine thread into something that tough and leave no trace behind.

Some sort of work coveralls wouldn't seem likely for so fine a badge.

No clue, me.

BTW, running the scans through good old basic "Paint" and doing nothing at all but saving them there doesn't change actual viewed size or clarity-- and produces a KB size about 4 times "smaller." The sheer "size" is contributing to my Technical Issues, apparently.

[jaba1914]

Great Group John. I love it.

Regards Alex

[VtwinVince]

Holy cow, John, what a great story. Sounds like von Schiller had quite an interesting career. Looks like a denazified pilot badge in the trophy case as well. My dad befriended von Buttlar-Brandenfels after the war, as they lived in the same flat in the Eifel mountains. Any chance of getting the rest of the items?

[Luftmensch]

:jumping:

Very cool, Vince! Did your father give you his impressions of Buttlar?

Did he swap out his PLM when Buttlar wasn't looking and gave it to you and you're holding out on us?

[Les]

Luftie....that's an super group of photos, and the trinkets that you picked up aren't shabby either. Good on you for snagging the stuff!

Les

[VtwinVince]

John, I wish my dad had grabbed von Buttlar's PLM, what a piece that would be. He described him as a very correct old-school officer, and they talked about his missions during the war. This would have been about 1950.

[paddywhack]

WOW!!!!! to have any ONE of these pieces would be amazing!!!!!!! :beer:

Edited November 21, 2008 by paddywhack