Sweet Mystery of Life.....

[Stogieman]

ooooooooo with a bar no less! Very, very interesting!! That makes 3. Anybody else have a NC one w. bars mounted?? Nice Joe!!

[Gerd Becker]

Hi Eric, I'm not sure and that is entirely possible. I have been wracking my brain since I noticed the labor medal trying to figure out when/where I last saw one!!

Yeah, same here. I haven?t seen very much of them, much much less than the Bravery-Version. And i also think, they share the same ribbon, maybe Ricky L. can shed some light on this.

Gerd

[Gerd Becker]

Nice one, Joe

[Stogieman]

Since we've really expanded this thread to encompass much about the 1870/71 KDM.... here's an example of the document for a steel on combat ribbon. Not sure how this will look, my apologies in advance.

[Stogieman]

And the whole thing. Can't remember what the glare is from, I must have photo'd it in an archive folder.

[Guest Rick Research]

Three years have passed...

many things have changed...

(not many for the better I might add)

and yet... and yet...

much that was lost is now found!---

Browsing through the late Eric Ludvigsen's monumental statistical study of annual Prussian awards numbers for Komtur...

it would appear that with the right edition of Prussian Ordensliste AND the 1870 EK listing since found by Glenn

...

it would be entirely possible to put

The Original Owner's Name to the Madeleine Kahn Bar which started all this with the "Young Frankenstein" reference.

So...

where is it NOW, oh my brothers? :cheers:

[Ed_Haynes]

Sorry, Rick . . . which bar? The one in post #1??

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes.

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes.

I know where it lives.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4129&st=70

[Guest Rick Research]

Can you warble like Madeleine Kahn as the Bride oF Frankenstein?

Eric's study of the Orders Lists shows that there was exactly ONE--

this one

awarded in the 19th century. The next "white/black" one listed was bestowed in 1905. By contrast-- 2,111 MEZ2s on the "black/white" ribbon were awarded for beating up on poor little Denmark.

Singleton!

Singleton!!

Dey ain't no mo 'cause it's da ONLY one!!!!

I don't have the NAME-- because Eric's mind-numbingly laborious statistics were of annual numbers awarded... but somebody with the Orders List showing 1864's awards will find him... and he can THEN be matched to an 1870 EK2w from THAT List... and from there to the rest of whatever his career was.

And THAT'S why none of us had seen a "white/black" MEZ2 that early before. :catjava:

[Ed_Haynes]

For this sort of result I can warble like anyone, even the late lamented Madeline. Rarely am I speechless. Thanks!!

[Dueppel]

Hallo,

I think there is no chance to identify the owner of the medal bar.

1. It was Ass.Arzt Dr. Castillon,who got the MEZ2 with the white ribbon in 1864 . But also got a MEZ1 in 1866.

2. In the RL 1870/71 St.Arzt Dr. Castillion is listed with both MEZ, but the white ribbon is not mentioned.

May be that there other MEZ2 with white ribbons, which are not mentioned in the OL and RL.

3. In the 1868 OL there is no MEZ2 with a white ribbon for 1866 listed.

Open question: Why is there a 1870 Combat Medal?

Dueppel

[Guest Rick Research]

:beer: for the name! There are no "white/black" MEZ1s listed, which suggests they got sloppy with correct ribbon types.

I think somebody (not me! not me! ) will have to sort through ALL the 1864 and 1866 MEZ2s and compare them with the 1870 EK2w recipients.

Oh jolly fun THAT will be!

Still, ALMOST ALL of the 9,409 1864-1868 MEZs (to combatant enlisted ranks) clearly could not possibly have had an unlisted "white/black" ribbon that somehow slid through the cracks with the normal variety. I'd think 9,000 of those--easy--could be written off just running down the Lists.

This will be some strange shadowy Nichtk?mpfer/Beamter type.

I have, BTW, done as much work to ID a ribbon bar owner. It ain't fun.

But the satisfaction of FINALLY finding the right person.... :catjava: