Stogieman Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 OK, apart from the very obvious reasons this bar is so absofreakin'lutely insanely into the rarebeyondmybecapicitytothink realm.........WHY is it such a STUNNING discovery!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 Reverse is like so: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 (edited) You own it and are not going to let this one slip away...?? Edited November 10, 2005 by Bob Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 To coin a phrase..............MINE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Good on ya, Richard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 But that's not why.......... there's something about this bar, something we take for granted/as accepted.......... this is the earliest known example (ca. 1880!!!!!!!!!!!!!) of........... what????????C'mon, guess, you know you want to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Rick, my gramma once told me, " It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 okay...i'll try...but don't laugh at me,or i'll cry.is the second one the allgemeines ehrenzeichen, first edition?joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Hi Stogieman,"absofreakin'lutely insanely into the rarebeyondmybecapicitytothink"... I couldn't agree more!Especially interesting in that everything appears to be non-combat ---- except the 1870-71 war medal. Any ideas as to why?Best wishes,Wild Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landsknechte Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 OK, apart from the very obvious reasons this bar is so absofreakin'lutely insanely into the rarebeyondmybecapicitytothink realm.........WHY is it such a STUNNING discovery!!Doesn't this hail from the era of trapezoid medal bars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 My guess is that it is the first General Honor Decoration seen with a non-combattant ribbon. I know I have never seen one. Plus all the other stuff everybody else said too. Super bar, you do have a knack for finding them. Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete A Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 What a wonderful bar!Without any kind of actual knowledge, i'd take a plunge and guess that this one is NCO/EM bar? If this is the case, then wouldn't that prussian style mounting be pretty early for such thing?Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biro Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Any non-com 1870 bar is a rare treasure as far as I'm concerned, so I can't imagine what it is that makes it even rarer...I would certainly love to see a closer view of the EK2 at some point though Rick - once your question has been answered that is...Marshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 My guess is, that its not the General Honor Decoration, but the (i?ll better take the german name) Krieger-Verdienst-Medaille?I have never seen one of these on a non-combattant ribbon before too.Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeikoGrusdat Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 of course it is the Kriegsverdienstmedaille (war merit medal...) and I have heard that it was awarded on the white-black ribbon as well but I have never seen it.... but when the EK and the Kriegsverdienst (both given for 1870/71) are on the non-combattant ribbon why is the 1870/71 medal on the combattant ribbon???? But I am shure stogie knows the answer... Heiko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 What a wonderful bar!Without any kind of actual knowledge, i'd take a plunge and guess that this one is NCO/EM bar? If this is the case, then wouldn't that prussian style mounting be pretty early for such thing?Peteundefined . Noncom EK2s are very rare to an NCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 The beast, the beast! Here I am just DYING from a preternaturally early visitation of my annual bout with concussive bronchitis, and Evil Ricky shows up and FORCES me to make GOOD scans as only the Good Ricky with my magic Epson 2400 can, of HIS treasure when MINE are all piled up and can't even PLAY with them in my current Mister Shabby state.Wait until you see.Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Do not think for a moment that your sacrifices for the good of this forum go unnoticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 OK, back from the Germ-Infested Twin's house. Yuck........ anyway, here's some better scans. The bar popped up in the UK, was sold on eBay.de.......... with no award in first place. Wear pattern of the ribbon, etc. suggest EK2. The original seller thought "too young to fight in 1864, too young 1866, but fought 1870/71" His words, not mine. I'm thinking Medical all the way.Now here's the really spectacular thing......... this bar is obviously a ca. 1880 bar. No Jubilee Oaks, No Centennial, No Battle Bars. When the bar arrived here, guess what? All the medals are mounted on the spring-loaded clips we would often find on WW1 and later bars. This is the earliest example of this style either of the Rickies has seen. Ribbons, mounting style, etc. are all consistent with pre-1900 officer-style mount. Typically (NOT always!!) the trapezoid Bars would be found on "Other Ranks". The campaign medals are all tied in place. the Milit?r-Ehrenzeichen, 2. Klasse is not, but the ribbon is stretched/worn in a manner that would be consistent with this huge fixed loop only. So, we're looking at an NC award of this medal for 1864, or 1866 !! This award garners an absurd value in the "books'......... it is only the second one we are aware of and hits a whopping 3.5 on the scale of rarity......Because of the clip-in, there's no other possibility for what was missing on the bar. A PCO/RAO would simply not match the bar for mounting height.As for the NC EK2 and C KDM for 1870/71...... I can offer no explanation without the documents, or knowing exactly who this fellow was. Probably Medical/Beamter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 The reverse......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 Closer.......... come closer my pretty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 And a final close-up....... note the color of the ribbons and of the campaign medals themselves. Note the tie-downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 As for the NC EK2 and C KDM for 1870/71...... I can offer no explanation without the documents, or knowing exactly who this fellow was. Probably Medical/Beamter.Rick (aka Stogie)An NCO medical type -might- have received an EK, although, I wouldn't discount the possibility of one of the almost invisible logisitical types that worked on the railways. Getting troops mobilized, and to the border in the short space of weeks on an improvised plan resulted in a major upset of transportation systems. German farmers thinking the French were going to invade harvested crops early, and started sending produce to the markets, while the various German states were in the prcoess of pre-empting all transport headed west. Bear in mind, in 1870, there was no "Schlieffen Plan" and the invasion of France was very much an off the cuff thing.It wouldn't be hard to visualize a major rail tie up around Saarbruecken and some old reservist familiar with routing trains around wrecks, crowded rail centers, etc., trying to establish some semblance of order and pulling it off.Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notned Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Stogie!An amazing bar!words fail me....thanks for sharing!can someone please post an example of both the combattants and Non combattants 1870-71 war medalI wish to be initiated on the differences and how to tell which is which...Thans Gents!Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 Ahhhhhhh, be careful.... the 1870/71 KDM can be found as:Combattant Medal on Combattant RibbonNon-Combattant Medal on Combattant RibbonNon-Combattant Medal on Non-Combattant Ribbon!(I actually owned an issue document that stated Nichtk?mpfer Medaille in steel on K?mpfer Band!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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