Prussian Bar with Mecklenburg Strelitz Civil Award

[Steve K.]

After a short 2 month hiatus, I surfed through some dealers webpages and found a very nice surprise. I probably overpaid for it, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen this Strelitz civil award mounted on a bar ....plus it came with an original picture . The bar matches exactly to the picture, eventhough we can not be sure the medals are original to the bar or original to this owner, it's nice to dream. I was pleasantly surprised to see this Sterlitz award with the correct ribbon. It will be a nice addition to my collection! Your comments are welcomed!

[scottplen]

AHHH YOU BEAT ME TO IT !!!!!!!!!! GREAT BAR I JUST SENT A MESSAGE TO DEALER TO SEE IF It was sold !!!!! I have never seen a civil merit medal from that state mounted !!!! Nice it has pic and SWA connection!!!! I dont think it was that over priced !! shame there is no name to it !!

[Steve K.]

I forgot to add his shoulder boards!

[Ulsterman]

That is a fantastic bar!! The picture of it being worn during the war really makes it.

Congratulations! You are having a good Christmas.

[Claudius]

I don't know how much you paid, but I don't think you overpaid for it.

Very nice bar. Very nice photo. An excellent group together.

[Guest Rick Research]

I still haven't run out of fingers and toes counting how many times in 40 years I have seen THE medal bar being worn in a photo still there as a set...

you've got the original owner's face and unit

congratulations!!!!! :cheers:

[sambolini]

Hi,

Very nice indeed. I wonder if he survived the war and was able to mount his EK2 (perhaps in a more up to date style of bar )

[Chip]

With the Swedish cuffs and numbered strap (is it a "24"?), I would guess he is a Prussian pioneer. Any other possibilities?

Chip

[Scott Powell]

fantastic bar,congrats!

[Naxos]

With the Swedish cuffs and numbered strap (is it a "24"?), I would guess he is a Prussian pioneer. Any other possibilities?

Chip

How about Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr.24 (Garnisonen in G?strow und Neustrelitz) would show the Mecklenburg-Strelitz connection.

I skewed the image - clearly 24

Edited December 12, 2008 by Naxos

[Naxos]

Steve, is there anything written on the back and/or does it have the name of the photographer?

[Steve K.]

Naxos....that's amazing....I've been thinking it looked liked a "44"....so I've been looking up every regiment that is numbered 44, but "24" is the right number. Thank you...I never thought to distort the picture to get a better view! Chip got the number long before me, and it's right in my hands!

3. Battalion Neustrelitz was part of Feldartillerie Regiment 24 (Holsteinsches), which was part of 17 Feldartillerie Brigade Schwerin, 17. Division (Schwerin), IX Armeecorps.

Unfortunately there was no name attached or printed on the back and no photographer information.

Steve

Edited December 12, 2008 by Steve K.

[Steve K.]

I'm not good at determining rank, but is he a Feldwebel?

[Naxos]

I'm not good at determining rank, but is he a Feldwebel?

The rank is Offiziersstellvertreter

Hardy

[Steve K.]

Hardy,

Thank you again....As I said, I'm horrible at rank....I wasn't even close! Must improve on that.

Steve

[Naxos]

Hardy,

Thank you again....As I said, I'm horrible at rank....I wasn't even close! Must improve on that.

Steve

No, you were close - an Offiziers-Stellvertreter wore the insignia of a Vizefeldwebel (Vizewachtmeister for Kavallerie and Feldartillerie) with additional Tressen around the shoulder straps.

Hardy

[Chip]

OK, now I think I have it. In studying the numbers further I recognize that they are a special "font" that was only used on two things. 1. the collars of Landsturm units. 2. the shoulder straps of reserve field artillery regiments. So there must be a cloth bomb between the metal numbers and the shoulder strap button. Here are some examples to show the difference between "normal" metal numbers and the special style numbers used for reserve FAR enlisted shoulder straps. The later were more rounded, less angular and were smooth without a center design.

Chip

[Guest Rick Research]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh. Hardy and Chip without whose skills and expertise the final remaining piece of this puzzle would have been impossible!

I have just transcribed the award rolls for Mecklenburg Strelitz's WW1 Cross for Distinction in War for publication in Daniel's and my ongoing never before published German WW1 award rolls series next year.

3rd Battery of Feldart Rgt 24 was the self-designated "Strelitz" company...

and from the sheer numbers awarded, it would stun me if every living Strelitzer who served in it did NOT end up with that Cross...

which your OffzStellv is NOT wearing...

yet...

When I consult my Pre-Publication Opus annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd

Offizierstellvertreters in FAR 24 =

just ONE.

Yup, out of 284 guys from that battery, just one.

Of course, he MIGHT have been transferred later in the war-- and this photo is from EARLY in the war... to one of those ragtag independent battery type units...

but there was only ever one Offizierstellvertreter listed for Field Artillery Regiment 24...

Say HELLO to

KARL ODEBRECHT

A medal bar, a face...

a name.

I know, I know. You are thinking "but a lot of early war Offizierstellvertreters were promoted to Feldwebelleutnant during the war-- what if he was a Feldwebelleutnant?"

Well, there weren't any such recipients in FAR 24.

One suspect.

One.

You are soooooooooooooooooooooooooo lucky. :catjava:

[Ulsterman]

...and Steve K. is lucky he posted that here for you to see!

Well done.

Bravo.

[Guest Rick Research]

It gets better. Although I feel rather like Abdul Alhazred after finishing the "Necronomicon"....

Been back through the Rolls in All Their Eldritch Horruh and...

Odebrecht got the 2nd Class (MStMV2) as a Vizewachtmeister in 3./ FAR 24, some time between October 1914 and February 1915 during one of the episodic gaps when the rolls (in that case his entry is "A68") only state batches of awards that were "published" and don't give an actual date.

He is the higher ranking, distinctively shoulder boarded Offizierstellvetreter here and is NOT wearing that...

only felt like wearing one thing out of his buttonhole? Hadn't actually RECEIVED the MStMV2 before being promoted? (The Strelitz Orders Chancery clerk was a senile drunken geriatric wretch, and years of delays and misfilings... but I digress. Botttom line is I made it through and still retained my sanity. Partially. On good days. )

In any case, there are NO other "24" unit suspects that fit this tunic. Zero. (Landwehr Inf Rgt 24? That's it!)

Here is his nice neat entry "D244"

That's very nice. What IS the "D" list?

Why that is the very nice, very neat SANE roll...

for FIRST CLASS Crosses for Distinction in War. Yup. The insanely rare pinback cross.

Note no date.

The life of a Research Gnome is never easy. Even when the RESULTS appear magical.

To get the DATE... we must descend deep deep down down down into

(that music in kung fu movies when they always show the ominous but untranslated sign on the bad guy's killers school)

The Crazy Rolls.

There "D244" is... "C4015." Got that? No? Doesn't matter. Only I need to have a "The Name of the Rose" key to find my way around the boobytrapped library.

There we see Division (note no regiment which is why the TWO Rolls had to be COMBINED to make any sense to anybody--including ME ) has put Offizierstellverterer Odebrecht in for the "MStMV1" and...

it was approved on 4 April 1918.

I'd say your family photo is circa Christmas 1914 leave. The senile drunken geriatric lunatic in the Orders Chancery has probably shipped his MStMV2 to the Front, while Himself is back at home down the street.

So I can not only name That Face BUT... also tell you two awards that aren't even there.

No virgins were sacrificed in the performance of this miracle. Rats.

[Ulsterman]

:speechless1:

[Naxos]

outstanding!

[Steve K.]

WOW! What an incredible amount of information and detective work. Thank you Rick! I can't believe you were able to cross reference back to the CRAZY Strelitz list to find dates for an award yet to be received. You are a BRAVE soul! I would have never found it! I owe you a hot chocolate for all your work!

Thank you All! I feel like Charlie that got the Chocolate Factory...like I hit the lottery!

My FIRST Identified bar!

The bar (with a rare merit medal, albeit civil), plus a photograph of him wearing THE bar, his name, rank, unit, awards yet to come......from a German "state" which I adore....absolutely incredible! Now I feel great about the money spent (just hope the wife thinks so too.).