Regiment ID in photo

[sef1962]

Hello, can anyone help with the regiment of the man in the photo Thanks Mark

[Ulsterman]

21????

Great picture, esp. given medal #3!

Edited February 5, 2009 by Ulsterman

[Tom Y]

It appears to be a 13 on his Schulterklappen, which would make him a member of Kgl. Bayer. 13. Infanterie-Regiment Franz Josef I.

Here's a useful link.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Tom Y

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: You are in profound luck. Aside from a SUPERB photo of an etatsm??iger Feldwebel-Offizierstellverteter in the M1915 "peacetime" full dress uniform, there were exactly 9 Bavarians awarded the Saxon General Decoration with Swords-- out of 1,967 bestowed during the war.

SEVEN of those NINE were identified as members of Bavarian Infantry Regiment 15. Of the remaining two, 1 was a deputy-Beamter and the other is simply identified as a Feldwebel on Army staff without a regiment listed. Chances are they too had some IR 15 connection.

FIVE of the NINE were Feldwebelleutnants, so they can be immediately eliminated.

Of the pool of FOUR "suspects" only one was an EXACT match for your fellow--

Feldwebel-Offizierstellvertreter SEITZ of KB IR 15 who got his Saxon GenDecX on 11 May 1917.

BUT

A Vizefeldwebel-Offizierstellvertreter RAST of KB IR 15 got one also on 11 May 1917-- so this COULD be him if promoted subsequently.

A Feldwebel Johann Grom on staff of Armee Oberkommando 6. Armee got one on 3 February 1915-- but can be excluded as recipient of the Austro-Hungarian Silver Merit Cross.

Beamten-Stellvertreter Andreas Br?unlein on staff of Oberkommando der S?darmee got one on 6 Sepember 1917 but also racked up an implausibly broad array of OTHER awards (Anhalt, Baden, Brunswick, Hamburg... ) that scratches HIM too.

So-- SEITZ matches perfectly, while RAST is the ONLY other possibility.

Not bad for an anonymous NCO--when an "ordinary" and "normal" looking group is... anything but.

:cheers:

[Chip]

Rick,

I did not know that there was more than one flavor of Offizierstellvertreter. Please explain. And could that be why we see some wartime Offizierstellvertreter wearing the Etatsm??iger Feldwebel sleeve chevrons (as a differentiation from the other type)?

Chip

[Glenn J]

Rick,

I did not know that there was more than one flavor of Offizierstellvertreter. Please explain. And could that be why we see some wartime Offizierstellvertreter wearing the Etatsm??iger Feldwebel sleeve chevrons (as a differentiation from the other type)?

Chip

Chip,

as I understand the regulations, the Offizierstellvertreter should have worn the insignia of a Vizefeldwel. However it would seem that often an individual appointed as an Offizierstellvertreter from the rank of Etatsm??iger Feldwebel would have been reluctant to remove the distinguishing badges of his more original senior rank.

Regards

Glenn

[Ulsterman]

Etatsmassiger Feldwebel was a senior rank to deputy officer? I did not know that. Did they get paid more?

In most of the regimental histories i read/see OffcrStllvtrs. are mentioned as officers and in the postcards of 'the officers' mess in Warsaw, 1916,' they are also there with the rest of the officer cadres.

[Guest Rick Research]

Offizierstellvertreter was a wartime ACTING Warrant Officer equivalent. On Final Victory they would have reverted to permanent grade. Appointed from the ranks of Vize- feldwebels/wachtmeisters and Feldwebels/Wachtmeisters, as Glenn said, the more senior (to Vizefeldwebels/Vizewachtmeisters) Feldwebels/Wachtmeisters continued wearing the other insignia of that grade-- in the case above, that second sleeve braid over the cuff. That simply indicated that a permanent Feldwebel OffzStellv was senior to a Vizefeldwebel OffzStellv when both were the same acting rank.

As Chip says, an OffzStellv was an OffzStellv... which is why I don't think Rast could have received a "normal" promotion AFTER being made an Officer Deputy. That leaves Seitz, who was the only Feldwebel before being made acting Warrant Officer.

[saschaw]

Nice photo, congratulations. When I saw it on eBay (yes I did, but cannot buy "everything" I see..) I initially thought "hey, that combination has to be rare... " Good find and honestly, I would not have thought he indeed is identifiably to presumably "one".

At the moment I'm offered a NCO photo I could identify from just one award - as he's wearing something that was not very often given to his "nationality". Identifying NCOs is making big fun... isn't it, Rick? :cheers:

[Ulsterman]

It is amazing-the frontier is slowly being backwards.

Remember this one?

[sef1962]

Thanks for all the help with the photo,. can anybody give me details of a web site which explains the various WWI ranks in the Imperial army.

Mark

[saschaw]

Here's a similar case, but I fear it isn't that easy. A Saxon NCO (please don't ask me for his proper rank) with WWI bravery awards by four German states! He has a general merit cross with swords, a silver Friedrich August medal and a XV, plus EK2 and the (military) merit medals from Baden and W?rttemberg. But, none of those has published lists...

Unique combination but impossible to track him down?

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah, too bad no name! Probably a Vizefeldwebel, though what would separate him from a Sergeant is off camera.