Austrian Post War Tunic with Second Republic Awards

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

I posted pictures of this tunic a while back and asked what medals I could realistically mount on the three existing medal thread loops. One of the forum members came through with three different suggestions. I have been able to complete one suggestion so I will post that one while I work on the other two.

Here is the tunic pictured as;

1-without the medals;

2-the thread loops;

3-medals mounted on the thread loops;

4-the individual awards as views viwed by you from right to left.

Wehrdienstmedaille in silber; Wehrdienstzeichen 3. Klasse; Goldenes Ehrenzeichen F?r Verdienste um die Republik ?sterreich.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited March 15, 2009 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

2-the thread loops; Also not the two thread loops for mounting a ribbon bar. And before you ask, no I don't have a ribbon bar yet!

Edited March 15, 2009 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

3-medals mounted on the thread loops;

[Gordon Craig]

Wehrdienstmedaille in silber;

Obverse.

[Gordon Craig]

Wehrdienstmedaille in silber;

Reverse.

[Gordon Craig]

Wehrdienstzeichen 3. Klasse; These Long Service awards may also be found with a silver metal bar across the ribbon. The bar indicates previous service in another military service.

Obverse.

[Gordon Craig]

Wehrdienstzeichen 3. Klasse;

Reverse.

[Gordon Craig]

Goldenes Ehrenzeichen F?r Verdienste um die Republik ?sterreich.

Obverse.

[Gordon Craig]

Goldenes Ehrenzeichen F?r Verdienste um die Republik ?sterreich.

Reverse.

[Paul R]

Goldenes Ehrenzeichen F?r Verdienste um die Republik ?sterreich.

Reverse.

Thanks for the wonderful presentation, Gordon. What is the Goldenes Ehrenzeichen F?r Verdienste um die Republik ?sterreich awarded for exactly? Achievement?

Also, what is the rank on the tunic?

[Gordon Craig]

Paul,

The rank on the tunic is for the equivalent of a captain. The Goldenes Ehrenzeichen F?r Verdienste um die Republik ?sterreich is for service to the country. Just exactly what that intails I am not sure of at the moment. I have just started to study the ODMs of the Austrian Second Republic and I need to do a lot more translation from my German language reference material before I am able to say any more. That is slow work so it will be a while before it is done

One thing that I think is correct is that the different grades of this award would go to military people of different rank. A captain could expect to receive this particular grade. I'll post more information on this award once I am more sure of my facts.

Regards,

Gordon

[speedytop]

Hi Gordon

I have problems with a captain and a "Goldenes Ehrenzeichen F?r Verdienste um die Republik ?sterreich".

Some links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Decoration_of_Honour

http://www.bmlv.gv.at/abzeichen/orden/galerie.php?id=122

And last a list of recipients of the different decorations (Sorry, only in German):

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Tr%...%C3%96sterreich

For a "Goldenes Ehrenzeichen" I can only see the rank Oberst and Oberstleutnant, and e.g. the rank Major and Vizeleutnant for a "Goldenes Verdienstzeichen".

Regards

Uwe

[speedytop]

Ahhhhh!

I have just found it :

http://austrian-mint.at/images/content/pdf...lalog_HDE_D.pdf

Please see page 27 and 28

9. Goldenes Ehrenzeichen:

Beamte der Dienstklasse VII (Oberr?te, Amtsdirektoren, Oberste),

Alleingesch?ftsf?hrer und Verkaufsleitern bedeutender Wirtschaftsunternehmen,

Gewerkschafts- und Kammerfunktion?re.

10. Silbernes Ehrenzeichen:

Beamte der Dienstklasse VI (R?te, Amtsr?te, Oberstleutnante, Chefinspektoren),

vereinzelt auch Beamte der Dienstklasse V (Fachoberinspektoren oder

Vizeleutnante) die 8 Jahre in der Zentralstelle Dienst verrichten, Sportfunktion?re,

Angeh?rige freier Berufe, K?nstler.

11. Goldenes Verdienstzeichen:

Beamte der Dienstklasse V (Fachoberinspektoren, Majore, Vizeleutnante,

Chefinspektoren), auch langj?hrige Beamte der Dienstklasse IV bei ?bertritt

in den Ruhestand soferne sie im Besitz des Silbernen Verdienstzeichens sind,

B?rgermeister, Sportfunktion?re, Stadtr?te.

12. Silbernes Verdienstzeichen:

Beamte der Dienstklasse IV und III (Fachinspektoren, Hauptleute, Vizeleutnante,

Offiziersstellvertreter, Gruppeninspektoren, Revierinspektoren, Oberoffiziale),

Sportfunktion?re, Vizeb?rgermeister, Stadtr?te.

Uwe

[Gordon Craig]

Uwe,

Thanks for taking all of your time to supply this info. I'll have to go though it today and make sure that I understand it.

Perhaps what has happened here is a misunderstanding about the original material I was sent and what awards eventually ended up on the tunic.

The forum member who assisted me in identifying what medals should be placed on this tunic sent me several possibilities for ribbon bars. I was able to identify most of them but was not sure of all of them. I printed out this coloured ribbon bar and showed it to a dealer in Vienna. He said the white and red ribbon with the rosette on the front, in the top three rows, was the Goldenes Ehrenzeichen F?r Verdienste um die Republik ?sterreich. I don't have any reference material in that area so I took his word for it, bought the award and mounted it on my tunic along with the other two.

So that leaves us with a couple of possibilities/questions;

1-some of the original suggestions would not have been correct for a Captain;

2-if some of the suggestions would not be correct for a Captian, which ones would these be?

3-the dealer in Vienna was incorrect when he identified the award from my picture.

Here is the picture of the suggested ribbon bars. What do you think?

Regards,

Gordon

Edited March 16, 2009 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

Uwe,

Thanks to your links and info, my reference material, and some hours studying both I have a much better grasp of this subject now. I am much better able to understand your statement.

The white and red ribbon with the rossette is the indeed correct ribbon for wear on the ribbon bar for those awarded the "Goldenes Ehrenzeichen F?r Verdienste um die Republik ?sterreich". Your text support the fact that this would be too high an order for a captain. It indicates that a Silbernes Verdienstzeichen would be more likely. Do you agree? I've posted a picture of the Silbernes Verdienstzeichen below. The picture is from the book ?ORDEN UND EHRENZEICHEN ?STERREICHS 1945-1999" by G?NTER ERIK SCHMIDDT.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited March 16, 2009 by Gordon Craig

[speedytop]

Hi Gordon,

please notice, I'm a German, and for exact statements it is better to contact an Austrian.

Yes, the "Silbernes Verdienstzeichen" could be correct, but than he must have some special merits, because he had, based on your other medals, less than 15 years of service.

Please see here an example, the two Captains and the Vize-Leutnant in front of the parade; no "Silbernes Verdienstzeichen":

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...utrichienne.jpg

Uwe

Edited March 16, 2009 by speedytop

[Gordon Craig]

Uwe,

Good suggestion to go to the source country but the previous suggestions came from Austria. I obviously need to find a very knowledgable person I guess. The only serving Austrian that I know is a Russian collector and not knowledgable enough to help me with Austrian medals.

I am inclined to agree with you that for a captian with only the medals I have on the tunic the silver order is not very likely. I guess I didn't explain myself very well. I guess what I was trying to say was that this is the highest grade of this order that a captian would likely have been awarded. The simplest thing to do would be to replace the order with a 10 year long service award or the early Olympic medal. Whatever I do it has been an interesting learning experience. Thanks again for your time, suggestions and assistance.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Uwe,

I've been studying the picture of the Guard Battalion that you posted. Great shot of the Vize-Leutnant wearing a holster that I have been trying to idnetify for sure for several weeks. Do you have a date for the photo? Those holsters were supposedly sold for surplus about 20 years ago.

Regards,

Gordon

edit-The Guard Battalion commander appears to be wearing the Jahrgange badge (right pocket) for the Officers Academy for the year 2001.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Gordon Craig

[speedytop]

Gordon,

the picture is from 14. July 2007, Champs Elys?es in Paris.

Yes, it is the "Jahrgangsabzeichen Liechtenstein 2001"

http://www.bmlv.gv.at/abzeichen/jahrgang_a...erie.php?id=222

Uwe

[Gordon Craig]

Uwe,

Thanks very much for the date. Now I can buy one of these holsters, if I ever see one for sale again, and know it was used by the military, and not by the police as I had thought, and have a picture of at least one place that it was used.

Regards,

Gordon