Kriegsmarine Request for Kriegsmarine tally book reference

[2dresq]

Greetings,

I am looking to do a bit of research. I have a Kriegsmarine tally and I would like to trace the origins. Is there a book that has the tallies of the Kriegsmarine?

Here is a copy of the tally in question.

If any one has any information on this particular one, I would love to hear it.

Thank you and regards,

2dresq

[Gordon Williamson]

Greetings,

I am looking to do a bit of research. I have a Kriegsmarine tally and I would like to trace the origins. Is there a book that has the tallies of the Kriegsmarine?

Here is a copy of the tally in question.

If any one has any information on this particular one, I would love to hear it.

Thank you and regards,

2dresq

I'm afraid your tally ribbon is not a Kriegsmarine piece. This is an early Bundesmarine tally ribbon. For a short period the Bundesmarine used the same Gothic style script as the Kriegsmarine before changing to block Latin script. This is one of five such Abschnittskommando ribbons,

Abschnittskommando Nordeee

Abschnittskommando Ostsee

Abschnittskommando Nord

Abschnittskommando Ost

Abschnittskommando West

At this point there is only one book on the ribbons of the Kriegsmarine "Die M?tzenb?nder der Kriegsmarine" by Horst Rivier. Long out of print but you can still find copies from time to time. There are many, many ribbons missing from this book which only has drawings rather than photos. It's basically just a list, not much back-up info. There is a companion volume of the ribbons of the Imperial navy.

There is a German publication on the ribbons of the Bundesmarine which, usefully, lists all of those which were done in Gothic script like the Kriegsmarine. Not a huge amount of info, against it's just a list but very useful for identifying ribbons like these Abschnittskommando pieces which might be confused for Kriegsmarine ribbons. When I get time, I will pin a list here of all the Bundesmarine ribbons in Gothic script.

Imperial Ribbons are well covered in the first volume of "Die M?tzenb?nder der Deutschen Marine" by Weddeking & Bodeux, over 440 pages with tons of photos and masses of into. A future volume will cover the Kriegsmarine.

[2dresq]

Thank you so much for the information.

Always learning something new in this field of collecting.

With Regards,

2dresq

[SICHERHEITSDIENTS]

I'm afraid your tally ribbon is not a Kriegsmarine piece. This is an early Bundesmarine tally ribbon. For a short period the Bundesmarine used the same Gothic style script as the Kriegsmarine before changing to block Latin script. This is one of five such Abschnittskommando ribbons,

Abschnittskommando Nordeee

Abschnittskommando Ostsee

Abschnittskommando Nord

Abschnittskommando Ost

Abschnittskommando West

At this point there is only one book on the ribbons of the Kriegsmarine "Die M?tzenb?nder der Kriegsmarine" by Horst Rivier. Long out of print but you can still find copies from time to time. There are many, many ribbons missing from this book which only has drawings rather than photos. It's basically just a list, not much back-up info. There is a companion volume of the ribbons of the Imperial navy.

There is a German publication on the ribbons of the Bundesmarine which, usefully, lists all of those which were done in Gothic script like the Kriegsmarine. Not a huge amount of info, against it's just a list but very useful for identifying ribbons like these Abschnittskommando pieces which might be confused for Kriegsmarine ribbons. When I get time, I will pin a list here of all the Bundesmarine ribbons in Gothic script.

Imperial Ribbons are well covered in the first volume of "Die M?tzenb?nder der Deutschen Marine" by Weddeking & Bodeux, over 440 pages with tons of photos and masses of into. A future volume will cover the Kriegsmarine.

hi gordon

im very interested on second volume about km cap tallies,do you know anything about it for buying?

regards from spain

fernando

[Gordon Williamson]

hi gordon

im very interested on second volume about km cap tallies,do you know anything about it for buying?

regards from spain

fernando

I think work on the book is still in progress. Not sure when it will be available to buy but one of the authors is a member here so I am sure we will find out when it is printed.

[ErichB]

Gentlemen not to fog up the topic but just as a listing that I have found beneficial for keepsake on the KM Bands is :

http://www.kieler-jung.de/katalog/kmarineliste.htm

hth

Erich ~

[Gordon Williamson]

An interesting list and quite useful for some areas but like several others it seems to be based on the assumption that for each ship there actually was a tally ribbon. I've yet to meet a serious tally ribbon collector who believes in a Bismarck or Tirpitz ribbon and some of the U-Boat Tender ribbons listed didn't exist.

I think we'll have to wait for the Wedeking & Bodeux book for a really definitive and accurate study.

[ErichB]

An interesting list and quite useful for some areas but like several others it seems to be based on the assumption that for each ship there actually was a tally ribbon. I've yet to meet a serious tally ribbon collector who believes in a Bismarck or Tirpitz ribbon and some of the U-Boat Tender ribbons listed didn't exist.

I think we'll have to wait for the Wedeking & Bodeux book for a really definitive and accurate study.

[ErichB]

Gordon, first of will be watching for your KM Fleet badge book coming out through Bender hopefully at years end.

thanks for the clarity was wondering could you add as to which U-Tender talleys of that listing are incorrect ?

Erich ~

[Gordon Williamson]

Hi Erich

Yes, looking forward to seeing the finished work myself. Roger told me he was looking forward to working on it through the Spring and Summer so hopefully that suggests it'll be finished and out before the end of the year. There is a lot of material for him to plough through, with over 1,000 photos.

As to the tallies I don't believe these two existed

Unterseebootstender D. Hertha

Unterseebootstender D. Odin

On the other hand Unterseebootstender Mosel did exist but isn't on that list. There are others that existed that are not on the list (Führerboot des F.d.M. etc) and I'm not so sure about some of the Kreuzer titles which I suspect were Reichsmarine not Kriegsmarine and probably only made in the earlier block script.

[nesredep]

Hello!

Interesting news,thanks.

All the best

Nesredep

[ErichB]

thank you Gordon for the update, the book sounds huge like Torpedos los. much success

additional question and thank you for the response about those two ships/Talleys.

the U-Tenders were they individually in place for individual U-Boot Flottille support ? hope this makes sense. In other words 1 Tender per Flottille or ?, depending on the theater of ops ?

again thank you

Erich ~

[Gordon Williamson]

The U-Boat tenders were a mixed bunch, many of which were originally merchant vessels rather than purpose built naval ships. "Lech" for instance started off as the liner "Panther" with accomodation for around 400 or so, went into the KM as a U-Boat Tender, after the war was an Italian liner, the "Mare Ligure" and eventually became the Israeli liner "Artza".

Some tenders were relatively small and basically provided little more than a depot ship for the U-Boats to tie up against when in port, limited workshop facilities for minor repairs etc, whilst others like "Wilhelm Bauer" were also accomodation ships which could accomodate several hundred crewmembers.

Tenders could be allocated to a specific Flotilla, i.e. "Saar" (which just to confuse matters was originally known as a Tender, then a Begleitschiff) was first allocated to Weddigen Flotilla, then Saltzwedel. But could also be allocated to a base port, and service more than one flotilla - particularly the case with some of the bigger ex-liners which served as accomodation ships.

Confused ? -You will be.

[ErichB]

confused you say ? indeed. seems following the Schnellbooten Flt. tenders is quite abit easier though they did support more than one Flottille as well during their careers ; thinking of the Tsingtau and the Tanga in particular as two. Sadly am not sure whether the talley for escort ship Adolf L?deritz was in wear ?

thanks again Gordon

Erich ~

[Gordon Williamson]

Tsingtau and Tange ribbons definitely exist, but I'm not so sure about Adolf Lüderitz. This one wasn't comissioned until mid-1940 by which time they'd be using the simple "Kreigsmarine" ribbons.

I suppose some could have been made but never issued, but I've never seen or heard of one.

[ErichB]

thought I would go ahead and add a portion of my very small collection with the S-Boot Tender Tanga.

Erich ~

[SICHERHEITSDIENTS]

anybody knows something about publishing the km cap tallies second part book...?

im missing this book and i hope it would be make for new year 2011

thanks for news about it

Edited December 13, 2010 by SICHERHEITSDIENTS