Stuttgart April 2009

[Claudio]

Dear forumites,

With this thread I'd like to stimulate a discussion about the show in Stuttgart and encourage people to post what they have purchased there.

As usual I found a lot of stuff that are sitting on dealers' tables since years with the same incredibly high prices. Sometimes though, I can find some nice things, although it is increasingly difficult to really discover the sacred Graal and make a "Schn?ppchen" (a real good deal).

In Stuttgart, although the Waffenb?rse was cancelled due to that terrible and widely in the media reported "incident" in Germany (I doubt though that something could be reached with this action, since next day I was participating to a Waffenb?rse in Lucerne, Switzerland), all the most important dealers were there... Of course this to me it is not so interesting, because most of their stuff is on their on-line catalogues. It is however always a good occasion to see some friends, collectors and personally meet some dealers.

Here my first bar... a "lipp'sche" Frackspange... untouched as it should be; not a great thing but nonetheless a very honest and perfectly mounted bar.

[Claudio]

Here I am showing another for me very interesting Saxon bar of a WWI veteran and later in public servant. The bar is perfectly mounted and comes with a nice label on the back; obviously also from a Saxon Jeweller... What can you want more!

I like these bars... everything looks good. I hate bars with loose medals, open threads, messed with backs or ribbons... As Rick pointed out many times, medal bars were worn very seldom (parades, official events, marriages,...) and therefore they should look pristine or at least in good worn conditions.

Of course, these bars, although there're very nice, they can not be researched, unfortunately... Maybe the unit can be found? Saxon WWI unit with W?rttemberg connection or a mixed larged unit (Division)? That would be interesting to know...

Edited April 5, 2009 by Claudio

[Claudio]

Dulcis in fundo (Last but not least) a real very little gem of a Saxon-Weimer tuxedo mounted medal bar. Notice the lovely and rarely seen juweller's label on the back. I would like to thank the staff of Medal House (Auction and Medal House) to give me the opportunity to purchase this cute medal bar.

Enjoy!

Ciao,

Claudio

[saschaw]

Very nice bars, Claudio! Have you been there on Friday? I've been there yesterday, but couldn't find anything but a tiny ribbon bar. However a great show as I meet some dealers and collectors, even some I did not know by now personally.

I think I have seen the Lippe bar before. It started some years ago in a huge lot with medal bar and dozens of ribbon bars and buttonaires in a huge combination case, but then was split thru all winds via eBay. What a shame... but still a great bar, nonetheless.

Here's my "just three centimeters" Stuttgart find:

[Guest Rick Research]

I remember that overwhelming Detmold group too. Thought I had a scan saved but can't find it. I'm sure it is here on a back page someplace. It had TWO medal bars (the other in normal left-to-right) mini chain, about 20 different lapel bows and ribbon bars all cased. This means that Somewhere Out There is the REST of all that-- and the chance to reunite at least SOME of it again. Though what the idiot who took it apart is planning to do with the empty fitted case....

The guy obviously had "issues."

But beautiful indeed and rare with the Detmold medal for WW1 wounds.

The Saxon NCO bar is interesting-- he's put the W?rttemberg medal ahead of his own FAM! He must have served in Inf Rgt 105, whose "Chef" was Wilhelm II of W?rttemberg.

ALWAYS a pleasure to see a "GSF3bX" too.

Now Sascha's "little" find was

unless I'm mistaken

made for that OTHER Wilhelm II, who can be seen in late 1915 photos wearing that combination.

Is there any point in asking dealers with fossilized stock why--if they've had a piece for... oh 10 or 20 years and it has NEVER sold in ALL that time... they think that THIS trip it IS going? Overpriced then-- so keep RAISING price? :speechless:

[Noor]

Dear forumites,

With this thread I'd like to stimulate a discussion about the show in Stuttgart and encourage people to post what they have purchased there.

As usual I found a lot of stuff that are sitting on dealers' tables since years with the same incredibly high prices. Sometimes though, I can find some nice things, although it is increasingly difficult to really discover the sacred Graal and make a "Schn?ppchen" (a real good deal).

In Stuttgart, although the Waffenb?rse was cancelled due to that terrible and widely in the media reported "incident" in Germany (I doubt though that something could be reached with this action, since next day I was participating to a Waffenb?rse in Lucerne, Switzerland), all the most important dealers were there... Of course this to me it is not so interesting, because most of their stuff is on their on-line catalogues. It is however always a good occasion to see some friends, collectors and personally meet some dealers.

Here my first bar... a "lipp'sche" Frackspange... untouched as it should be; not a great thing but nonetheless a very honest and perfectly mounted bar.

Hi Claudio,

Very nice bars! Especially with the SFW!!!

Can you or someone tell me about the swords device on the Milit?rverdienstmedaille what you have on the first bar? Are those official or not?? I have one similar ribbon bar where is first four awards exact same and te 3rd place sword device gives me a headache because I was all the time thinking that its not oficial or the award is something what I don?t know!

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes, official. Theoretically I believe it was supposed to be removed when the other combat awards were granted since this was basically an early war award for being wounded when the soldier had no other awards yet. But nobody paid attention to the rules after 1918.

There is a thread about this medal someplace. Solomon knows all about it.

[Guest Rick Research]

Ha. Found the scan, which I saved on 15 July last year, so that's when this came up. Those of you who get the Big Catalogs may recognize wherever it had been on offer Pre-Dispersal from the page layout:

Personally, I cannot understand the sub-species of so-called "collector" who WOULD have split up such a literally unique and splendid group-- the likes of which will never be seen again. Maledictions upon tthe fool responsible for splitting this group apart. Pox unto the third generation be upon him. :angry:

[saschaw]

That really was a moron who spilt that unique group. It was offered at Thies' auction in ~2007 and I said to Solomon he should buy it - to prevent what happened, as if I had known it before...

Thanks for identifying my "bar", Rick. I knew it before, the ribbon is show on Nimmergut's B?nderkatalog, last page - worn in the button whole. I don't think those were ever thought to be worn as a ribbon bar, and I'm pretty sure it is just a piece of ribbon someone decided to make a "bar" from.

This might get a moron thread, talking yet about two...

Anymore GMIC people who were at the show and bought someting? ;)

[Chip]

Would someone please explain Saschaw's bar to the great unwashed masses? I am assuming that it is one of those multi-medal, overlapping, one-piece ribbons?

Chip

[saschaw]

I am assuming that it is one of those multi-medal, overlapping, one-piece ribbons?

Mulit-medal: yes, eight on this on. Overlapping: no, the ribbons are "full", but only about 4 mm each. One-piece ribbon? Yes, it is. Special order for the exactely one who had all those awards, but of course they had to produce more than the few centimeter SM ("Seine Majest?t") did need. And that's what morons are making from those ribbons left in the stock.

[Chip]

Saschaw,

OK, thanks for the clarification. Now, what do the references to the Kaiser mean? And are you saying that your ribbon bar is made up from old stock? Sorry, I'm trying, but I'm not following this too well.

Chip

[Claudio]

@ Sascha: I remember very well Thies auction with the Lippe Group. I also bid on it, but the final price was quite high. I wanted to keep it together. I didn't see other pieces of the group in Stuttgart being sold by the dealer from whom I got the frackspange, though.

@ Rick: thanks for your info about the IR 105: I thought there was a Saxon unit with W?rttemberg's connections.

I also bought a couple of ribbon bars worn by the same officer. Although the combination is not unique the conditions are really good. One ribbon bar has the typical Godet's needle pin configuration on the back.

Ciao,

Claudio

[Claudio]

Here's the back of the above-mentioned ribbon bars:

[Guest Rick Research]

Chip: that combination was worn by the Kaiser from the 2nd buttonhole of his tunic in the fall of 1915, before ribbon bars like Claudio's were created. Obviously, as a "system" that didn't work very well! :cheeky:

[Claudius]

Dear forumites,

With this thread I'd like to stimulate a discussion about the show in Stuttgart and encourage people to post what they have purchased there.

As usual I found a lot of stuff that are sitting on dealers' tables since years with the same incredibly high prices. Sometimes though, I can find some nice things, although it is increasingly difficult to really discover the sacred Graal and make a "Schn?ppchen" (a real good deal).

In Stuttgart, although the Waffenb?rse was cancelled due to that terrible and widely in the media reported "incident" in Germany (I doubt though that something could be reached with this action, since next day I was participating to a Waffenb?rse in Lucerne, Switzerland), all the most important dealers were there... Of course this to me it is not so interesting, because most of their stuff is on their on-line catalogues. It is however always a good occasion to see some friends, collectors and personally meet some dealers.

Here my first bar... a "lipp'sche" Frackspange... untouched as it should be; not a great thing but nonetheless a very honest and perfectly mounted bar.

A wonderful bar. With Spring in the air, Claudius loves the roses. Thank you for your observations. It is interesting in this current world economic climate that a Schn?ppchen is still hard to find. I would think that slowing sales would be an incentive. Even Detlev has a little bit sitting on the shelves, and he already has low prices. Perhaps it is still too early. Over here initially, house prices refused to come down, even when they didn't sell. Now everyone is lowering price to make the deal.

It appears to have been a great show. I wish I could have "flew over" and said hallo to everyone.

Just some questions;

It was just sold in 2007 and came back for sale already?

The bar has a dark blue felt backing, but the group orginally consisted of an army wound badge, so not navy?

Why did he have 13 button-hole ribbon "knopflochschleisfen"? Did he have 13 suits and just had them sitting in them?

Yes, the person that split this group up would probably do the same to a Girard-Perregaux watch. :speechless: