Imperial Russia Firemens society badges

[GeorgeCL]

Heres a group of society badges.

George

[Chuck In Oregon]

EXCELLENT topic.

Here is the badge of the Blue Cross Firemen's Society. Well, I'm pretty sure that was the name of the society. This is my only Imperial fireman's badge.

The cross itself is silver, and proofed. The tools, anchor and helmet are solid gold, and the anchor is proofed. The screwback is silver and proofed. I can find no hallmark anywhere.

I really like this forum so far. There is a lot to be learned here and I value that very highly. And the company seems first rate as well.

Enjoy.

Chuck

Edited November 21, 2005 by Chuck In Oregon

[Gerd Becker]

Hello,

did i get that right, that these Firemens societys were non-official associations for Firemen? Sorry for the weird question, but i wonder if i got the right translation. The german word would be "Verein" then.

Oh and beautiful badges

Thanks in advance

best,

Gerd

[Chuck In Oregon]

Hello,

did i get that right, that these Firemens societys were non-official associations for Firemen? Sorry for the weird question, but i wonder if i got the right translation. The german word would be "Verein" then.

Oh and beautiful badges

Thanks in advance

best,

Gerd

* * * * *

Good question, Gerd. In the absence of a crown, I sort of assumed that mine was a private society, to the extent such a thing existed. As opposed to, say, the Imperial Society of the Red Cross, with its emperor's crown on everything, proclaiming an official sanction and endorsement. Or, more to the point, as opposed to George's firemen's society badges.

Chuck

[Gerd Becker]

* * * * *

Good question, Gerd. In the absence of a crown, I sort of assumed that mine was a private society, to the extent such a thing existed. As opposed to, say, the Imperial Society of the Red Cross, with its emperor's crown on everything, proclaiming an official sanction and endorsement. Or, more to the point, as opposed to George's firemen's society badges.

Chuck

Thank you, Chuck. Maybe George can enlighten us further, when he reads this.

Gerd

[Chuck In Oregon]

Avers 3 shows this as item 538 on page 102, and dates it 1897. It merely calls it The Society of the Blue Cross and lists it under "Fire Fighting Badges". It shows two varities, a gold version and a silver-and-gold version. Mine must be the latter.

[GeorgeCL]

I found Chucks badge in my "The badges of Russa" book

Blue cross society as chuck states.

Here are specs. of presention.

George

[GeorgeCL]

Heres a group of society badges.

George

top center badgeRewarding badge of the imp.Rus.Fire service

center is the monogram of Grand duke Vladimir Alexandrovich, honorary Chairman of the society.

Left, badge for members of the railway fire brigades came in bronze and silver grades. see full eagle on top.

right, and lower center and mini, Imperial russian fire society. crown on top

came in three grades

gold silver and bronze.

Gold, Honorary members and donators

silver lifelong members-competitors

bronze, the right to wear this badge was givin to some full time members of the society as well as to personnel os fire brgades.

worn on the left chest.

[Chuck In Oregon]

I found Chucks badge in my "The badges of Russa" book

Blue cross society as chuck states.

Here are specs. of presention.

George

* * * * *

George, thank you for that very interesting response. I'm going to copy that page and put it in with my references. Obviously, I need to buy that book. Do you know where I can get it? I have found a book dealer in Poland from whom I intend to order some books on awards and uniforms. If he works out OK, I'll let everyone know.

That picture shows an all-silver badge except for the gold helmet. Mine has a silver cross but the rest of the parts are gold. If there were only two variants, then by process of elimination mine must be what Avers calls the gold variant. Now that is the kind of friendly help that will make this forum useful and help it/us to grow.

Chuck

[GeorgeCL]

Hi Chuck,

I found most of the books I have at: http://collectrussia.com/

They are a bit $$$

I have to get books in english and they always are twice what Russian versions go for

Most run in the $200.00 or so

You can also get some Historical books from Gauntlet Publications with english Trans if you need..

I'll get titles for you of what I think are the best for the money..

George

[FireMedals]

Georgecl

Thanks for starting this...some great badges in your collection. There are several fakes circulating that can fool the unexpecting. As most collectors have never seen originals, this is a great reference.

In regard to the SOCIETY OF THE BLUE CROSS, my limited references say the Society was formed to aid firemen and their families. Perhaps the families of those killed or injured in the line of duty. Gold and Silver classes, but there was also a jetton for those who donated money. Can't say I've ever seen one of those.

I also show an Imperial Society of Firemen Insignia of Distinction; Silver oak and laurel wreath with an Imperial crown on top. In the center are the initials "W.A." in Cyrilic of course, standing for the Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovitch, the patron of the Society. After his death in 1909 the initials were changed to "M.P." for the Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna, who became patron. The base has a firemens helmet and crossed axes. I only have a poor photocopy. I'll try to scan it next week ( away for Thanksgiving) and post it if it's any good.

I also have information on a couple of other similar pieces, I'll try to post later.

Thanks again for the photos,

Fire

FireMedals

[GeorgeCL]

Hi Firemedals,

heres a scan out of Werlich's Jettons of imperial Russia Book..

This is one reason I love to collect and the hunting for Imperial russian awards etc..

seems they have one for everyday..

George

[FireMedals]

Got a few moments to hide in my office, so I'm going to try some scans. This is the Imperial Society of Firemen Insignia of Distinction badge. I apologize for the poor photocopy. Anyone have a photo of a real one?

FireMedals

[FireMedals]

Here are scans of two Russian fire-related jettons I've had, and have no idea as to what they are for. The one on the right is for 25 years of something, 1876-1901, probably a fire brigade anniversary. The reverse of that one is plain.

The round one has ; 7 20 May ??

_______

1903 2

The "20" in 7 20 is in small numbers and underlined. The "2" after 1903 is in subscript. Assume that is the date, but I'm not familiar with the dating system.

Any ideas are appreciated.

FireMedals

[FireMedals]

The reverse of the above pieces.

[Chuck In Oregon]

I think the badge on the right is the 1901 25th Anniversary Badge of the Volunteer Fireman's Society. I'm having trouble with the word Двинское, which might be a derivative of the word for motor/engine/moving/advancing. The saying/motto could be something like For the Advancement of the Volunteer Fireman's Society. At the bottom is In Memory of the Jubilee.

The one on the left is probably a member's badge in one of the fireman's societies. The letter Р could stand for Русский, or Russian. The letter П probably stands for Пожарник, Fireman, and the O is likely for Обшество, or Society.

Just guesses from a beginner student.

Chuck

Edited November 23, 2005 by Chuck In Oregon

[GeorgeCL]

As requested Reverse of badges..

George

[Chuck In Oregon]

Well, darned if I didn't find another Fireman's Society badge in one of the drawers. I forgot all about it.

This looks like the same badge as the one in the middle of George's big image, "Badge of the Imperial Russian Fire Society". "Fire", according to Avers 3, but suppose it could actually be "Fireman's" Society.

Avers lists a silver and a bronze version. George's is obviously the bronze version. However, I think mine is silver-plated bronze. Could the "silver" variant be only silver-plated, like mine, or do we know that there was a solid silver variant? Or, I suppose that all of the silver plating (if there ever was any) on George's could have come off over the years. Mine bears neither proof mark nor hallmark. Obviously, I need to invest in better reference books.

Chuck

[FireMedals]

Chuck,

Thanks for the information. Much better than my attempts to use a Russian dictionary.

Anyone have any photos of how jettons were usually worn? The two I have show some wear in the suspension loop, but I would expect these to be on a chain or perhaps a pin bar. Anyone familiar with these???

Firemedals

[GeorgeCL]

Heres a picture of an officer wearing more jetons than I thought posible.

Thay are uusally worn in the left buttonhole on a small chain..or as a watch fob.

George

Edited November 29, 2005 by georgecl

[Chuck In Oregon]

Seven??? That's very interesting. I don't think I have ever seen more than one jeton worn at a time.

Just today I received from Georgia several nice groups. One of them has two interesting jetons, one funny, inscribed, gold and silver jeton that he received for his birthday (undated) and the other a very intriguing 1913 military shooter's award of a type that I have never seen. That one is particularly interesting because this guy was a doctor. I have his photo and his medical badge as well.

Do you suppose it was permissable to wear a personal jeton, like this birthday gift, on a military uniform? Or are all seven of those jetons military issue of some sort? The more I see and the more I learn, the more questions I have.

Chuck