A few items of Irish Constabulary

[Richard Gordon]

I took these a while ago on a visit to the Ulster Folk park in Cultra near Belfast and thought I really should share them here with those interested in police uniforms.

I don't know much about them.

Rich

[Richard Gordon]

female

[Richard Gordon]

Nice helmet. Period?

[Richard Gordon]

Last. Any ideas what this one is?

Rich

[Mervyn Mitton]

Richard - I think everyone will be pleased that you posted these. They are magnificent - being for an earlier period they were always a little 'showy'. The rank is Chief Superintendent and the last one is his ceremonial uniform.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Mervyn Mitton

[Mike Dwyer]

Love that helmet! :jumping:

[Mervyn Mitton]

If the two uniforms and the helmet are to the same Ch. Supt., it is interesting that he wears the MC bar on his service tunic. Assuming that he was detached for War Service that only gives a few years prior to 1922, when the Force was disbanded with the dissolution of Ireland. Could he have earned it for the Dublin rising ?? Would he even have been eligible, with the criteria for awarding an MC ? Without a name I don't think we'll ever know - perhaps you could contact the museum and ask them ?

[Richard Gordon]

Guys,

I'm please that you're enjoying the photos.

I do not believe the 2 tunics are from the same person or at least I do not recall anything in the displays that connected the two.

I don't see a MC ribbon on the service tunic... there are 2 vertical stripes not one so don't know what medal that is.

Rich

[Paul L Murphy]

If the two uniforms and the helmet are to the same Ch. Supt., it is interesting that he wears the MC bar on his service tunic. Assuming that he was detached for War Service that only gives a few years prior to 1922, when the Force was disbanded with the dissolution of Ireland. Could he have earned it for the Dublin rising ?? Would he even have been eligible, with the criteria for awarding an MC ? Without a name I don't think we'll ever know - perhaps you could contact the museum and ask them ?

It is not an MC ribbon, it is a KPM (or QPM) ribbon. Also a number of the other ribbons are post 1922 (eg The Defense Medal) so this must be an RUC era tunic, not RIC.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Paul L Murphy

[Mervyn Mitton]

Sorry, I didn't look closely enough - saw the colours and assumed MC. Probably not the same person - but, always possible he transferred to the RUC?

[Brian Wolfe]

Thank you for sharing these photos with us Richard.

Very nice uniforns indeed and that helmet....

Regards

Brian

[Richard Gordon]

No problem. Glad you all found it interesting.

Rich

[leigh kitchen]

Cambridgeshire Constabulary are currently looking to sort out their "museum" - the collection's been in storgage for some years & the council's given notice to shift it.

In amongst the items stored should be uniforms to a RIC officer, some years ago a lady saw the police museum guys with a stand at the annual East of England show near Peterborough & donated the uniforms (I think they were her fathers).

They include helmet & cap, tunic, riding breeches & boots, overalls & sword, belts etc as I recall, I have'nt seen them for years.

It would be nice if they saw the "light of day" again, although I never understood why Cambridgeshire kept & displayed them in their small museum in Peterborough when they would be so much more relevant to the RUC / PSNI.

[Peter Mc]

The first uniform is to an RUC officer of the rank of County Inspector. The second uniform is to a woman constable of the RUC. The third and fourth pictures are of the helmet and full dress tunic of a District Inspector (1st Class) of the RIC. As I recall the PSNI Museum knows the identity of the original owners of these uniforms as they were donated to the Museum.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Peter Mc

[Mervyn Mitton]

I take it that a District Inspector - 1st class , in the RIC, is the mainland equivalent of a Chief Supt.? Would that make the RUC County Inspector a Supt.?

[Peter Mc]

I take it that a District Inspector - 1st class , in the RIC, is the mainland equivalent of a Chief Supt.? Would that make the RUC County Inspector a Supt.?

More the other way round Mervyn. A D.I. would be the equivalent now of a Superintendent, and a C.I. a Chief Super or Asst Chief Constable. However at the time the ranks were more analgous to army ranks viz a D.I 1st Class would be a Major and a County Inspector a Colonel.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thankyou - Peter. That would make sense since they were para-military. I have never had a great interest in the Irish Police and regret, that I overlooked them in my book - basically, because of the differences from mainland Forces. An old Inspector of mine - Sir Hugh Annersley, became the Chief Constable in Northern Ireland. Are you in the 'job' to have this interest ?

[leigh kitchen]

I bought these a few months ago, no real reason, just liked them - good quality "officers quality" in British army terms, marked

"HENECY & SONS / .DUBLIN."

13 x large & 2 x small buttons.

[Jamie770]

I attach a few pictures of an interesting Garda helmet I've come across - it is a very unusual style with a pronounced front brim.

It is made of cork, leather edged and appears to date from 1950's (?) or so.

It is covered with quite a course dark blue cloth and it has never had a rose or any other top mount fitted - nor has it any other holes or signs that it has ever had a different helmet plate.

I once saw a picture of a tatty helmet of this style but fitted with a blackened plate which was for sale in America but otherwise I have never seen another.

Does anybody recognise this style of helmet or know when it was in use?

[Jamie770]

Herewith a more side view

[Jamie770]

The top mount - there was never a rose or any other cover fitted

[Mervyn Mitton]

Jamie - a very rare helmet, in exceptional condition. I have never seen a Garda helmet before - only caps, the shape is weird - seems to have the back at both front and back. I suppose they wore it for a short period - rather like the Scottish Police, with their helmets discontinued in the 1950's. Have you seen other examples of these - could it have been experimental - after all, the purpose of the 'rose' is to stop water going through the vent holes?

[Jamie770]

Hi Mervyn, I have once seen a picture of another example of this type of helmet. It was for sale in America and was quite a bit more worn. It had a blackened badge unlike this one but it also had no top rose nor any other cover to the ventilator.

Beyond this I've never seen another - as you say it is such an odd shape. Hopefully someone else may know a bit about the history behind it.

The Garda did wear helmets in (I think) Dublin but the ones I've seen were the more standard pattern. Jack Leddy has a very good website with a few Garda helmets - my computer skills aren't good enough for me to post a direct link; but if you put "Jack Leddy" into Google it will take you straight there - well worth a look.

[The Badger]

Cambridgeshire Constabulary are currently looking to sort out their "museum" - the collection's been in storgage for some years & the council's given notice to shift it.

In amongst the items stored should be uniforms to a RIC officer, some years ago a lady saw the police museum guys with a stand at the annual East of England show near Peterborough & donated the uniforms (I think they were her fathers).

They include helmet & cap, tunic, riding breeches & boots, overalls & sword, belts etc as I recall, I have'nt seen them for years.

It would be nice if they saw the "light of day" again, although I never understood why Cambridgeshire kept & displayed them in their small museum in Peterborough when they would be so much more relevant to the RUC / PSNI.

Leigh

Wondered what an RIC uniform was doing in the museum, hope it all takes off again do the following bring back any memories. Grabbed them from a video I took in 1996 wish I had taken more detail and close ups.

Alan :beer:

[leigh kitchen]

Ah yes, memories - remember the old dummy torso wearing a sergeants patrol neck tunic, WWII Police tin helmet, moustache & gold rim specs, used to sit behind a dias in the old briefing room at Bridge St PS?

I saw that one Sunday, sitting in the front passenger seat of a police car, arm raised in a wave to passers by & being chauffered by a certain PC from Bridge St.

The bicycle in the photo - it & its companions were too big for me, my feet could'nt touch the ground & I was in danger of being run over, shooting through red lights.

So they got me a nice little ladys blue shopper bike with a white basket on the front - worked ok till I stopped outside the town hall one day & a rather eccentric gentleman punched me off it.

Off topic anyway - it would be good to see some close ups & have the details of the original owner of those RIC uniforms, but it does seem such a waste that they're in Peterborough.

Just remembered, I've still got the RUC whistle which I wore in lieu of the Cambs issue one (simply because I lent mine to a fellow probationer to see the Chief & it never came back).