How did THAT get there?

[landsknechte]

Found this photo while perusing old auction catalogs. Any ideas as to how the English jubilee medal would have ended up there?

[Guest Rick Research]

They often went back and forth to each other's occasions.

Kaiser Wilhelm, remember, was Auld Queen Vickie's grandson.

[Dave Danner]

They often went back and forth to each other's occasions.

Kaiser Wilhelm, remember, was Auld Queen Vickie's grandson.

Ernst Ludwig, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine (Gro?herzog von Hessen und bei Rhein), was also Queen Victoria's grandson.

[Dave Danner]

It gets creepier. The Grand Duchess of Hesse when the Victoria Diamond Jubilee Medal was issued in 1897, Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig's wife, was Victoria Melita of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Princess of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. She too was Queen Victoria's granddaughter.

Go here - http://lafayette.150m.com/sax1298a.html - for a cool picture of the heir to the Saxon throne, Friedrich August III, and several German officers and a British officer all sporting the Diamond Jubilee Medal. Note that whoever maintains that site has a lot of unknowns on that page. The collective brain trust here could probably fill in the blanks.

[landsknechte]

"I'm as English as Queen Victoria!"

[Daniel Murphy]

I do not doubt it . Victoria's family line was Hannoverian. When there was no suitable successor to the throne in 1714, it was offered to King Georg of Hannover. He became King George I of England. This led to a dual monarchy which existed until the 1840's. I wonder that if the monarchies had not been separated, would England have gone to war with Prussia (it's old ally since 1813) in 1866? It could have changed the course of world history, but we will never know. Then we have the Mountbatten"s, the original name was German, Battenberg , they anglicized it in 1914. There are heavy amounts of German bloodlines throughout the upper crust of English society. I think everyone knows that George V, Kaiser Wilhelm II and Nicolas II were all cousins and grandchildren of Queen "Vicky".

Dan Murphy

[Dave Danner]

I do not doubt it . Victoria's family line was Hannoverian. When there was no suitable successor to the throne in 1714, it was offered to King Georg of Hannover. He became King George I of England. This led to a dual monarchy which existed until the 1840's. I wonder that if the monarchies had not been separated, would England have gone to war with Prussia (it's old ally since 1813) in 1866? It could have changed the course of world history, but we will never know. Then we have the Mountbatten"s, the original name was German, Battenberg , they anglicized it in 1914. There are heavy amounts of German bloodlines throughout the upper crust of English society. I think everyone knows that George V, Kaiser Wilhelm II and Nicolas II were all cousins and grandchildren of Queen "Vicky".

Dan Murphy

Geopolitical realities were driving Prussia/Germany and England into rivalry, so it would be overstating the case to focus on personalities. But another interesting variant of what you note is what would have happened had Kaiser Friedrich III not died so soon. As Victoria's son-in-law, married to her eldest daughter, he was closer to her than his son Wilhelm II ever would be. Put him on the throne from 1888 to 1901, when both Queen Victoria and his widow died, and you have ten plus years where England and Germany might not have drifted as far apart.

Of course, Belgium, Romania, Greece and Russia also had German rulers or close relationships to German ruling houses, but that didn't stop them from joining the Allies.

[Mike Dwyer]

Geopolitical realities were driving Prussia/Germany and England into rivalry, so it would be overstating the case to focus on personalities. But another interesting variant of what you note is what would have happened had Kaiser Friedrich III not died so soon. As Victoria's son-in-law, married to her eldest daughter, he was closer to her than his son Wilhelm II ever would be. Put him on the throne from 1888 to 1901, when both Queen Victoria and his widow died, and you have ten plus years where England and Germany might not have drifted as far apart.

Of course, Belgium, Romania, Greece and Russia also had German rulers or close relationships to German ruling houses, but that didn't stop them from joining the Allies.

Dave, I think you bring up some interesting points. I'm making no claim at being an expert on any of this, but several months ago I read an excellent biography of Kaiser Wilhelm II (The Last Kaiser by Giles MacDonough) that changed some of the beliefs I'd held for years because of the "propaganda" I was taught as a child/young man. Although I'm not saying Germany was all innocent and pure, I was surprised to read about some of the rather unfriendly, war-provoking, things that were done to Germany prior to 1914 by Britain, France and the good old USA! I'd heard about some of the bad things Germany did all my life, but of course, nothing about some of the things the future allies did.

As to Kaiser Friedrich III, I'm not sure how his reign might have turned out. It may be as you said, warm loving relationships with Britain, etc. If I recall correctly Prince Bismarck and a large part of the officer corps had a great distrust of Friedrich because they considered him a liberal, and a pawn of Britain because he listened to his wife too much. In MacDonough's book, Kaiser Wilhelm II is shown to have been a great lover of all things British, of his grandmother, etc. but there seemed to have been a concerted, orchestrated propaganda effort by the British government to alienate the British people from Wilhelm at every turn. It was kind of like that old saying, he couldn't win for losing!

[Nick]

Indeed do not forget that King George V renamed his family name from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor in 1917. Obviously a shrewd move when hundreds of thousands of men were dying for their King, the last thing they would want reminding of was his ancestry.

[VtwinVince]

Quite right, Dave, it was Prussia's great tragedy that the "Hundred Days Kaiser" died in 1888.