Turkey WHAT ABOUT THIS TWM

[demir]

HI,

WHAT ABOUT THIS AUSTRIAN MADE SILVER TWM?

PLEASE NOTE THE ARMS OF THE TUGRA COVERING EL GAZI.

ALL THE BEST

demir

[demir]

reverse

[TerryG]

HI,

WHAT ABOUT THIS AUSTRIAN MADE SILVER TWM?

PLEASE NOTE THE ARMS OF THE TUGRA COVERING EL GAZI.

ALL THE BEST

demir

Nice one Demir. That Tugra is very different from the usual ones. Actually, I wanted to ask you if you had ever tried to show all the various types of Tugras found on the TWMs and possibly the names of any manufacturers identified, all next to each other? (I notice in Dogan Koleksiyon Para 2009, pages 129 and 139 that various Tugras are shown, corresponding to different Sultans. Have you thought of doing the same for the Tugras found on these stars?)

[Guest Rick Research]

The Austrian " * " mark (on the pin of these stars) was used during the First War to indicate base metal alloys.

This poor mangled thing was found by a friend's father in the middle of a road in Bavaria in late April 1945-- causing a bit of a panic because they thought maybe it was SOVIET and there were Russians ahead! :cheeky:

[TerryG]

:

This poor mangled thing was found by a friend's father in the middle of a road in Bavaria in late April 1945-- causing a bit of a panic because they thought maybe it was SOVIET and there were Russians ahead!

hahaha Wonderful story attached to this terrible-looking star. Just goes to show how such a piece becomes much more interesting with provenance and when one knows how/where it was found. If you saw this for sale it would not be worth much yet it is a great piece of history.

Edited October 10, 2009 by TerryG

[demir]

Nice one Demir. That Tugra is very different from the usual ones. Actually, I wanted to ask you if you had ever tried to show all the various types of Tugras found on the TWMs and possibly the names of any manufacturers identified, all next to each other? (I notice in Dogan Koleksiyon Para 2009, pages 129 and 139 that various Tugras are shown, corresponding to different Sultans. Have you thought of doing the same for the Tugras found on these stars?)

Hi Terry,

I will try to do that. But it will also be better to see the style of the base emaille in order to idendify the maker. Some makers use different Tugras

Of course you now but for other friends:

Tugra'S (Signature of the Sultan) on all TWM are all Sultan MEHMED RESAT. The small sign on the right top corner is EL GAZi (Had been to a war and survive)i the date is 1333 - 1917. Some has only 333.

All the best

demir

Edited October 10, 2009 by demir

[saschaw]

The Austrian " * " mark (on the pin of these stars) was used during the First War to indicate base metal alloys.

The star mark has been used by some German makers too, and I'm not sure if their products are silvered ("unedel") as well. Zimmermann from Pforzheim comes to mind, a main maker for orders of half of Europe. Have heard of a Berlin maker who used it as well.

This poor mangled thing was found by a friend's father in the middle of a road in Bavaria in late April 1945-- causing a bit of a panic because they thought maybe it was SOVIET and there were Russians ahead!

Great story for a... uhm, very nice TWM... :cheers:

[dond]

Here's one in better condition.

[TerryG]

Nice one. So many variants, so much more I need for my collection... :banger:

[dond]

I been informed that the one I posted is a new fake based upon the Austrian one shown. Can anyone confirm this?

thanks

[TerryG]

I been informed that the one I posted is a new fake based upon the Austrian one shown. Can anyone confirm this?

thanks

I would very much like to read comments on this as this star looks fine to me. The enamel and the designs underneath it seem to match the others shown above.....

Edited December 29, 2009 by TerryG

[dond]

As requested, "The information came from an old chap in Auckland who has been a colletcor of these for many years apparently this one is a copy of this original type :

http://cgi.ebay.com/GERMAN-TURKISH-GALLIPOLI-WWI-STAR-RARE_W0QQitemZ120307017847QQihZ002QQcategoryZ135QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26ps%3D63

Note the lack of detail in the silvered border and the difference in enamal styling, apparently the triangle enamalling on the arms is a give away as is the poor hinge attachment and sloopy finishing on the hook attachment solder."

[demir]

I would very much like to read comments on this as this star looks fine to me. The enamel and the designs underneath it seem to match the others shown above.....

Hi,

What is a fake for the TWM ?

For me apart from the Turkish Made painted ones, they are all fake.

(Although I have a lot of them, they look nice, even the picture of the medal of mine in this thread is fake)

So what you are asking is ; " is this a fake copy of the fake"?

Apart from the lines on the arms and bad finishing,

the star on the pin has 4 corners, normally it has 5. Check the first two medals in this page the stars has 5 corners and yours has only 4.

ALSO in the picture of the TWM in eby which is given as the original of the TWM (suggested by an old chap in Auckland) has 5 corners.

In this case, as he suggested, this may be a fake of the fake. So we can all it a new version.

On the other hand

The reason why I started this thread was the shape of the Tugra on my medal.

The TUGHS (the lines in the middle) have to be straight not bend toward the pseudonym (the egg shape on the right).

Please check my other thread on OTTOMAN SULTAN TUGRAS ( http://gmic.co.uk/in...showtopic=40277 ).

All the best and a HAPPY NEW YEAR

demir

Edited December 29, 2009 by demir

[TerryG]

The TUGHS (the lines in the middle) have to be straight not bend toward the pseudonym (the egg shape on the right).

Please check my other thread on OTTOMAN SULTAN TUGRAS ( http://gmic.co.uk/in...showtopic=40277 ).

Merhaba Demir.

I see that the Tughs on the ebay star are not straight so this should make us question the item but one of the Tughs on your 1st Star is bent toward the El Gazi. So what does that mean?

Happy New Year to you too and to all on the forum.

Terry

[dond]

The question then is, "Is the piece I posted a period produced item or a modern repro?"

[demir]

Merhaba Demir.

I see that the Tughs on the ebay star are not straight so this should make us question the item but one of the Tughs on your 1st Star is bent toward the El Gazi. So what does that mean?

Happy New Year to you too and to all on the forum.

Terry

Hi Terry,

In this case tugra is OK.

I was talking about my medals Tughs.

All the best hope to se you this time when you come to Ankara.

demir

[demir]

The question then is, "Is the piece I posted a period produced item or a modern repro?"

I think a modern repro.

[dond]

Thanks.