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    Hi everybody,

    here is one of my new Saxon ribbon bar. The combo is very interresting. Indeed, Saxe connection with Saxe Weimar. It indicate that our man came from the Karabiner Regiment whose Chief was Wilhelm Ernst von Sachsen Weimar.

    But we can find Finnland ribbons : from 1918 to 1939-40.

    Some few names appears :

    If the ALbert knight cross is 1st class with X, we have probably the following name :

    Major a. D. Walther von Ehrenkrook

    But if the Albert knight cross is from 2nd class with X, we have the following name :

    Leutnant Ernst Guenther

    Of course there is probably more names but for the moment that's all I have.

    Christophe

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    Guest Rick Research

    At some point when the Happy Day arrives when we have the list of Finnish awards to Germans, it may be possible to narrow this down when it is known who did NOT get a Cross of Liberty.

    Only that one Saxon unit was present in Finland. :cheers:

    Walter Ulric (no h in his middle name) Adolf von Ehrenkrook was born in Berlin 17.08.83. His entry in the "Genealogisches Handbuch der Adeligen Häuser B Band I" from the outstanding C. A. Starke Verlag (1954) merely lists him as Major aD with Ehrenritter class of the Johanniter Order.

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    • 14 years later...

    Daniel & Christope,

     

    I was poking around online last night researching my runt of the litter sibling of your bars:

     

    post-184-1130310778.jpg.5572834b42ed4abdbbdefc9e1bf58c48.jpg

     

    ...and I came upon a nifty 1924 regimental history book about the Karabinier-Regiment!  (You can access it via Hathitrust here, and you can download a PDF through Google Books here.)

     

    mdp.39015062996981-seq_1.thumb.jpg.f65a932e2b01c93ecbf04333b27a6026.jpg

     

    mdp.39015062996981-seq_6.thumb.jpg.fc43712ba76ab54922a0f3f952017418.jpg

     

    Anyhow, onto the really interesting bit. It lists who from the Karabinier-Regiment received the Cross of Liberty:

     

    Major v. Reden

    Rittmeister Merz

    Rittmeister v. Ehrenkrook

    Oberleutnant Schintling-Horny

    Oberleutnant v. Schierbrand

    Leutnant v. Arnim

    Leutnant Guenther

    Leutnant d.R. Frentzel

    Leutnant d.R. Hahne

    Leutnant d.R. Leo

    Leutnant d.R. Schippel

    Leutnant d.R. Mummert

    Leutnant d.R. Herfurth

    Leutnant d.R. Hildebrand

     

    mdp.39015062996981-seq_315.thumb.jpg.570f553bc45a9f60267a1981475bd2c4.jpg

     

    So much for Ehrenkrook and Guenther as viable candidates, apparently.  Additionally, I came across a field guide to Swedish noblemen - "Den introducerade svenska adelns ättartavlor" by Gustaf Elgenstierna that has an entry for Ehrenkrook.  If it's accurate, it would seem he also had a Brunswick KVK.

     

    Capture.JPG.6ce0bfb07d4092bb427f2c21441fab3b.JPG

     

    Have you guys identified any other candidates?

     

     

    Edited by landsknechte
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    On 14/10/2009 at 23:58, Guest Rick Research said:

    At some point when the Happy Day arrives when we have the list of Finnish awards to Germans, it may be possible to narrow this down when it is known who did NOT get a Cross of Liberty.

     

    Only that one Saxon unit was present in Finland. :cheers:

     

    Walter Ulric (no h in his middle name) Adolf von Ehrenkrook was born in Berlin 17.08.83. His entry in the "Genealogisches Handbuch der Adeligen Häuser B Band I" from the outstanding C. A. Starke Verlag (1954) merely lists him as Major aD with Ehrenritter class of the Johanniter Order.

     

    That happy day has already come!

    It's sad that Rick didn't get to see it... :(

     

    Here is the list:

    Egenutgivna böcker - Medalj-forskning.se

     

    There will also be lists of Swedish recipients of the cross of Liberty 1918 and German recipients of 1941-1944. 

     

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    6 minutes ago, JohanH said:

     

    Here is the list:

    Egenutgivna böcker - Medalj-forskning.se

     

    There will also be lists of Swedish recipients of the cross of Liberty 1918 and German recipients of 1941-1944. 

     

     

    What great work, absolutely phantastic! Small correction, if I may: 

    Deutschen mit der Finnische Freiheitz kreuz in 1918 =

    Deutsche Empfänger des Finnischen Freiheitskreuzes im Jahre 1918

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    1 hour ago, Deutschritter said:

     

    What great work, absolutely phantastic! Small correction, if I may: 

    Deutschen mit der Finnische Freiheitz kreuz in 1918 =

    Deutsche Empfänger des Finnischen Freiheitskreuzes im Jahre 1918

     

    Thanks! I have updated it now. 

     

    I only learned basic school german many years ago of which I remember very little. :)

    Our substitute teacher didn't speak german so we watched Das Boot (with Swedish subtitles) several times instead of learning the language. 

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    Found another mention in the book of some further awardees:

    frei2.JPG.770ffbf6f7faa3184496faafa3834402.JPG

     

    This thread from 2021 cites a newspaper article mentioning some awardees from various units.  From the Karabinier-Regiment: Leutnant Hans Arwed v. Poser u. Groß-Nädlitz, Leutnant d.R. Gerhard Merkel and Richard Koerner. 

     

    Frustratingly, Merkel was the best candidate I had thus far found, going off of the awards mentioned in the book, and the 1914 ranklist.  He had the EK2, SA3bX, and GSF3bX.

     

    Major Willy Garten-Kraft had the EK2, SA3a, GSF3a, and a DA.  While it's not unheard of for a minimalist officer to not wear their long service, he has a distinct lack of swords.

     

    Anyone have a first name on Rittmeister von Pawel-Rammingen?  Was it Udo that served in the Karabinier-Regiment, or one of the numerous other von Pawel-Rammingens?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    1 hour ago, Nicolas7507 said:

    Top bar is Ehrenkrook/Guenther.

     

    The problem is the missing Cross of Liberty.  We've now got evidence that both Ehrenkrook and Guenther were awarded it.  While it's possible that they omitted it for some reason, it seems odd they would choose to leave out an order in favor of  a couple of less prestigious commemorative medals.  Doubly so since we're looking at ribbon bars made a few years apart from each other.

     

    I'm not pleased about the discovery, but I believe the bars that you, Daniel, and I have belong to a different officer from the Karabinier-Regiment.  I'm hoping someone with access to the Albert Order and White Falcon rolls might be able to find some additional candidates.  

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    On 17/09/2024 at 16:02, landsknechte said:

    Daniel & Christope,

     

    I was poking around online last night researching my runt of the litter sibling of your bars:

     

    post-184-1130310778.jpg.5572834b42ed4abdbbdefc9e1bf58c48.jpg

     

    ...and I came upon a nifty 1924 regimental history book about the Karabinier-Regiment!  (You can access it via Hathitrust here, and you can download a PDF through Google Books here.)

     

    mdp.39015062996981-seq_1.thumb.jpg.f65a932e2b01c93ecbf04333b27a6026.jpg

     

    mdp.39015062996981-seq_6.thumb.jpg.fc43712ba76ab54922a0f3f952017418.jpg

     

    Anyhow, onto the really interesting bit. It lists who from the Karabinier-Regiment received the Cross of Liberty:

     

    Major v. Reden

    Rittmeister Merz

    Rittmeister v. Ehrenkrook

    Oberleutnant Schintling-Horny

    Oberleutnant v. Schierbrand

    Leutnant v. Arnim

    Leutnant Guenther

    Leutnant d.R. Frentzel

    Leutnant d.R. Hahne

    Leutnant d.R. Leo

    Leutnant d.R. Schippel

    Leutnant d.R. Mummert

    Leutnant d.R. Herfurth

    Leutnant d.R. Hildebrand

     

    mdp.39015062996981-seq_315.thumb.jpg.570f553bc45a9f60267a1981475bd2c4.jpg

     

    So much for Ehrenkrook and Guenther as viable candidates, apparently.  Additionally, I came across a field guide to Swedish noblemen - "Den introducerade svenska adelns ättartavlor" by Gustaf Elgenstierna that has an entry for Ehrenkrook.  If it's accurate, it would seem he also had a Brunswick KVK.

     

    Capture.JPG.6ce0bfb07d4092bb427f2c21441fab3b.JPG

     

    Have you guys identified any other candidates?

     

     

    FYI

    That is not a complete list of Liberty Cross awards to Kgl. Sächs. Karabinier. Regt.

    There were at least 22 crosses and two Liberty medals awarded. 

     

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    On 20/09/2024 at 09:58, JohanH said:

    FYI

    That is not a complete list of Liberty Cross awards to Kgl. Sächs. Karabinier. Regt.

    There were at least 22 crosses and two Liberty medals awarded. 

     

    With that in mind, I went through the book again to double check,  This is a list of the officers that were with the regiment during 1918, as best I can tell:

     

    Major v. Reden
    Rittm. Merz
    Rittm. Frhr. v. dem Bussche-Streithorst
    Rittm. v. Ehrenkrook
    Oblt. v. Schintling-Horny
    Oblt. Liebster
    Lt. v. Schierbrand
    Lt. Guenther
    Lt. d. R. Hahne
    Lt. d. R. Leo
    Lt. v.Arnim
    Lt. v.Poser u. Gross-Nadliz
    Lt. Koerner (Gottfried)
    Lt. Mummert
    Lt. Herfurth
    Lt. v.Leonhardi
    Lt. Wünning
    Lt. v.Kyaw
    Lt.d.R Riedel
    Lt.d.R Körner (Rudolf)
    Lt.d.R Frentzel
    Lt.d.R Hahne
    Lt.d.R Hübner
    Lt.d.R Leo
    Lt.d.R Hildebrand
    Lt.d.R Serre
    Lt.d.R Koerner (Richard)
    Lt.d.R Oettler
    Lt.d.Ldw.Kav Eisentraut
    Lt.d.R Schippel
    Oberstabsarzt d.R. Dr. Günzel
    Feldhilfsarzt Andree
    Stabsarzt Dr. Schenke
    Stabsarzt d.R. Dr. Thalwitzer
    Vetrinär d.R. Willkomm

     

    From that list, I crossed out everyone mentioned in the book / the newspaper article as having been awarded the Cross or Medal of Liberty. 

     

    Of the remainder, three can be ruled out right off the bat:

     

    Rittm. Frhr. v. dem Bussche-Streithorst - KIA

    Lt. d. R. Leo. - had an SV3bX

    Oberstabsarzt d.R. Dr. Otto Günzel - had a long service decoration

     

    Oblt. Liebster - no info on decorations

    Lt. v. Kyaw - no info on decorations

    Lt.d.R Oettler - no info on decorations

    Feldhilfsarzt Andree - no info on decorations
    Vetrinär d.R. Willkomm - no info on decorations

     

    Lt. Koerner (Gottfried) - confirmed SA3bX
    Lt.d.R Serre - confirmed SA3bX

     

    Lt.d.Ldw.Kav Eisentraut - appears in photo wearing SA3bX & EK2 on a medal bar (posted in a thread here)

     

    Lt.d.R Riedel (Erich)- appears in a photo from the same source wearing a 3 place ribbon bar that could easily be an SA3bX, EK, GSF3bX combination.  At the moment, he seems to be the most likely candidate.

     

    post-3473-0-14323400-1388048552.thumb.jpg.eef79fb268ad1c2c49fbd403217b989e.jpg

     

     

     

     

    Edited by landsknechte
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