Stahlhelmbund photos from my collection

[Alex K]

Hi very interesting photo's which have helped to confirm the request I had in another thread,

regards

Alex K

http://gmic.co.uk/in...showtopic=40403

Any idea as to what colour unifroms they wore, were they feldgrau?

Edited November 5, 2009 by Alex K

[Freiwillige]

Any idea as to what colour unifroms they wore, were they feldgrau?

Yes, Stahlhelmbund uniform was Feldgrau in colour.

[Alex K]

Yes, Stahlhelmbund uniform was Feldgrau in colour.

Thanks

regards

Alex

[Freiwillige]

No.19 Another beautiful portrait of the Stahlhelmbund WW1 veteran member.

[Freiwillige]

Any help with the identification of his awards is highly appreciated :rolleyes:

[nesredep]

Yes, Stahlhelmbund uniform was Feldgrau in colour.

Hello!

I agree,Feldgrau.

All the best

Morten.

[Gordon Craig]

No.5 Either Oberwehrmann or Stabswehrmann, rank chevron worn on the arm isn't visible here. White piping signifies an active membership within Stahlhelmbund. Awards: Eisernes Kreuz 2.Klasse; Militär-Verdienstmedaille (Württemberg); Kyffhäuserbund Medaille; Kampfabzeichen der Ehrenlegion; Pro Deo et Patria 1914-1918 (???).

By the way I have a couple of questions regarding this photo:

a) What does "3" on his collar patches stand for?

b) What is the fifth award? In fact I doubt it's Hungarian medal.

c) What badge is worn on the left side of the Feldmütze?

Freiwillige,

The badges on the side of the cap are usually commemorative badges. Some were authorized to be worn there and some were not but were worn anyway. I'll post some fotos of hats with badges on the side tomorrow when I can get better pictures of them. These are really wonderful pictures of Stahlhelm men. Thanks very much for posting them.

As for the colour of the uniforms, feldgrau covers a multitude of different colours of grey.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited December 9, 2009 by Gordon Craig

[Ulsterman]

I'll take a stab at the medals in #30.

Hopefully others will correct me and/or fill in the gaps:

1. Saxe Coburg Gotha Ernestine civil merit house order medal w/crown -silver

2. Bavarian Red cross society service medal (odd ribbon though)

3. ?

4. Saxe Coburg Carl Eduard's personal House order medal(awarded after the 1918 abdication) w/crown/home service? bronze

5.Ehrenbund Detsch.Kreigsteilnehmer WW1 commem. medal with bars

6. Saxe Coburg Gotha war cross (IR 95 ?)

7. Coburg Red Cross commemorative medal for war service-1917 OR (most probably) Bavarian Red Cross society medal.

8.?

9.Saxe Coburg Carl Eduard wedding 1905 commemorative

10. German Honor Legion WW1 commemorative medal

11. ?

12. Treu d. Regiment medal

13. Kyfserbund members' medal

14. Hungarian WW1 commem. medal

15. ? shooting society award??

[Freiwillige]

Freiwillige,

The badges on the side of the cap are usually commemorative badges.  Some were authorized to be worn there and some were not but were worn anyway.  I'll post some fotos of hats with badges on the side tomorrow when I can get better pictures of them.  These are really wonderful pictures of Stahlhelm men.  Thanks very much for posting them.

As for the colour of the uniforms, feldgrau covers a multitude of different colours of grey.

Regards, Gordon

Many thanks for the info and kind words, Gordon! By the way do you have any idea regarding that "3" device on the collar patches of that Stahlhelmbund member?

[Freiwillige]

I'll take a stab at the medals in #30.

Many thanks for the identification of the awards!

[Gordon Craig]

Many thanks for the info and kind words, Gordon! By the way do you have any idea regarding that "3" device on the collar patches of that Stahlhelmbund member?

Freiwillige,

On the cap badges. Festival and Rally Badges (Fest- und Erinnerungsabzeichen) - Special regulations for the wearing of these badges were introduced in early 1931. They appear to have been worn as early as 1927. Those Stahlhelm members who participated in a general soldiers front day (Reichsfrontsoldatentag - usually referred to as RFST) were required to buy the day of participation day badge and wear it on the left side of their tunic. Later regulations allowed it to be worn on the cap band. If a participant did not buy the badge for the event he was attending his Stahlhelm card and badge would be taken away from him by the Geheimdienst (secret service of the Stahlhelm) It would appear that these RFST badges could be worn for at least a year as when the following years badge was purchased the previous years badge was to be removed from the tunic. Members were only supposed to wear one RFST badge at a time but fotos indicate this regulation was widely ignored. Fotos also indicate that previous years badges were often worn on the cap band while the current years badge was worn on the tunic. Local district meeting badges were sometimes permitted to be worn on the tunic for the day of the event only but I expect this regulation was also regularly ignored.

The first picture I will post shows three badges worn on the cap band, an unknown one and badges for the RFST in Koblenz in 1930 and in Munich in 1929, while the current years badge, 14. RFST in Hannover in 1933 is worn on the tunic. It is taken from ”Headgear of Hitler’s Germany” Vol. 2 by Smith and Saris.

[Gordon Craig]

The second foto, also from the same book, illustrates festival badges worn on the cap band during an official event. It is also a good example of the variety of uniform colours that were worn.

[Gordon Craig]

The third foto is a picture of the 9.th RFST badge from the meeting in Hamburg in 1928. It is on a Stahlhelm tunic from my collection.

[Gordon Craig]

No.5 Either Oberwehrmann or Stabswehrmann, rank chevron worn on the arm isn't visible here. White piping signifies an active membership within Stahlhelmbund. Awards: Eisernes Kreuz 2.Klasse; Militär-Verdienstmedaille (Württemberg); Kyffhäuserbund Medaille; Kampfabzeichen der Ehrenlegion; Pro Deo et Patria 1914-1918 (???).

By the way I have a couple of questions regarding this photo:

a) What does "3" on his collar patches stand for?

b) What is the fifth award? In fact I doubt it's Hungarian medal.

c) What badge is worn on the left side of the Feldmütze?

As for the 3 on the collar tab in this post. I do not have any regulations or information on its wear on a tunic but similar badges were authorized for wear on the cap band at one point. In late 1924 a system of cyphers was introduced for wear on the left side of the cap band by Jungstahlhelm members. These consisted of Arabic numerals which would identify their Kameradschaften. There was also a system of Roman numerals to be worn that identified the Gau or District of the wearer. An example of this would be VIII followed by a 3 which would indicate the third Kammeradschaft in the city of Magdeburg. This system was abolished in 1930. Perhaps at one point a similar system was authorized for tunic collar tabs. If so, perhaps it was used while Stahlhelm wore crests on their right arms indicating what district they were from. For example, a three on the collar tab of a man with the L.v. Mecklenburg badge on the right arm could indicate he was from the third Kameradschaft of the district of Mecklenburg. This is just an educated guess on my part so please don’t take it as gospel.

Regards,

Gordon

[Freiwillige]

Thank you very much, Gordon, for the valuable info provided! I really appreciate any help regarding Stahlhelmbund insignia as all information I have is just collected together odds and ends from various sources. Could you please provide me with a Gau numerals? And secondly, could you please recommend any online resource where I could find as complete as possible info regarding Stahlhelmbund insignia?

[Gordon Craig]

Freiwillige,

Sorry but I can not help you with either request. There are no lists of the Stahlhelm Gau that I am aware of nor am I aware of any online resources for Stahlhelmbund insignia. What I know about the Stahlhelm has been gathered from books related to other subject such as hats, cuffbands, my own collection and from browsing online auction houses in Germany. If you do a search for Stahlhelmbund Gau you will find a lot of sales of Stahlhelm Gau cuffbands listed. With some work you could assemble an approximate list of their Gau. I've posted a picture of a Stahlhelm uniform below with a Gau cuffband that I took from a museum in Germany. Good luck in your search for information on the Sathlhelm. We could all benefit from more knowledge in this area.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Freiwillige,

Sorry but I can not help you with either request. There are no lists of the Stahlhelm Gau that I am aware of nor am I aware of any online resources for Stahlhelmbund insignia. What I know about the Stahlhelm has been gathered from books related to other subject such as hats, cuffbands, my own collection and from browsing online auction houses in Germany. If you do a search for Stahlhelmbund Gau you will find a lot of sales of Stahlhelm Gau cuffbands listed. With some work you could assemble an approximate list of their Gau. I've posted a picture of a Stahlhelm uniform below with a Gau cuffband that I took from a museum in Germany. Good luck in your search for information on the Stahlhelm. We could all benefit from more knowledge in this area.

Regards,

Gordon

[Ulsterman]

I have a reprint of the "Traditions Verlag" Uniformen und Abzeichen der SA,SS,HJ und Stahlhelm" originally printed in 1935.

Abzeichen (arm shields) for Stahlhelm Gau are listed and shown as:

Anhalt, Baden, Bayern, Gross-Berlin, Regiment Reinhardt, Brandenburg, Hamburg, Hanover, Gross Hessen, Hohenzollern, Lubeck, Magdeburg, Mecklenburg, LV Mittedeutschland, LV Nordmark, LV Ostmark, LV Ostpreussen, LV Pommern-Grenzmark, LV Sachsen, LV Schlesein, Ortsgruppe(unintelligable), Gau Unterweser, LV Westfalen, LV westmark, LV Wurttemberg.

[Gordon Craig]

Jeff,

Thanks for the list of Gau and Landesverband. My tunic has an armshield for Lv Mecklenburg. Interesting that it is refered to as a Gau in your list. Does your book mention anything about the Gau armbands? Does it only adress things in wear in 1935? Do you know where I could get a copy of this book?

Regards,

Gordon

[Freiwillige]

Many thanks for the information!

No 20. Students' meeting in 20s or early 30s. Note the Stahlhelmbund member at the far right and Reichwehr Gefreiter.

[Freiwillige]

Fragment of the previous photo. Note the absence of the collar patches.

[Freiwillige]

No.21 Another member of Stahlhelmbund. According to the insignia this photo was made after September 1933.

[Ulsterman]

Hi Gordon.

Alas, "no" to all questions.

[Freiwillige]

No.22 Very interesting portrait of a SAR-I (SA-Reserve I) Stahlhelmbund member from Sturm 31, Reserve-Standarte 180. According to the Oberste SA-Fuehrung order (January 25, 1934) all the Stahlhelmbund members serving in the SAR-I had to wear SA uniform and insignia.