Luftwaffe Unqualified Air Gunner Badge

[Stan]

This is a badge I bought from Forman in 1997.

Some collectors have expressed their concerns about it as the wreath measures approx 52.3mm high and 41.3mm wide which is a little bit less than the regular Assmann Air Gunner badge. The eagle wingspan is 40.95mm compared to the usual 41.65. The "A" maker mark on the eagle is also unusual.

I have seen identical badges shown on other forums and there has never been an issue with them but I suppose we are learning new things all the time. Stephen Previtera shows an identical badge on p294 in his book on Luft Badges.

What do the gentlemen of this forum think?

Stan

[J Temple-West]

I’ve been looking very closely at this badge type over the past few months, ever since the opportunity of having an example in-hand.

When I first saw these badges I thought Assmanns use of dies used in the earlier production of the aluminium series acceptable, and in fact commendable during a time when high quality steel used in the production of dies was a hard commodity to come by. These thoughts combined with photos available, and the opinions given by owners were enough to give enough confidence that these pieces were period.

Then one was put in the palm of my hand and all positive thoughts were quickly put to one side.

My first reaction..Why the Juncker eagle? And poorly produced!

Compare the eagles…Assmann (left) Juncker (right)

[J Temple-West]

Next.....atypical rivets.

Next…..The A maker mark on the eagle.

Found on known fakes and post war marked pieces.

Left: mark found on post war fake flak badge.

Right: Post war mark found on original 1st pattern Observer's badge by Deumer.

So, not so clear-cut as once thought, and not for my collection.

[J Temple-West]

As requested, the flak and Observer's badge with the bogus Assmann mark.

flak:

Obverse.

[J Temple-West]

Reverse:

Maker mark:

[J Temple-West]

Original 1st pattern Observer's badge by Deumer.

Obverse:

[J Temple-West]

reverse with bogus maker mark

[Scott]

JTW, I agree with what you are saying overall, but my eye sees two distinctly different eagles in post #2.

[J Temple-West]

JTW, I agree with what you are saying overall, but my eye sees two distinctly different eagles in post #2.

Exactly my point, Scott.

If this badge type was original it would have the Assmann eagle shown on the left of the comparison in post # 2. it doesn't, it has a poorly produced Juncker eagle shown (right) in the same comparison shot.

[Stan]

Well, it certaintly does not look good for my badge.......

Anyone got a nice original for sale?

Stan

[Karsten S]

Well well. Seems like you guys have also been busy discussing the Assmann badge over here.

Cheers

Karsten

[J Temple-West]

Ok, here is a clue to another type of badge that should be a cause for concern for collectors

Same maker mark either stamped at the time of post war production or post war stamp to a period piece....

...so time to check those summer eagles.

I tried to find the full frontal/reverse shots of this early droop-tailed summer eagle in gold but alas no luck.

Here however is a poor shot of the reverse of perhaps the same badge.

[Steve K.]

I do not have one of these in my collection. I have never thought they were good for enecdotal reasons (nippled rivits!). I think the analysis here by JTW, especially concerning the maker's mark, makes a good point.

[Steve K.]

double post

Edited October 27, 2009 by Steve K.