Stan Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 This is a badge I bought from Forman in 1997. Some collectors have expressed their concerns about it as the wreath measures approx 52.3mm high and 41.3mm wide which is a little bit less than the regular Assmann Air Gunner badge. The eagle wingspan is 40.95mm compared to the usual 41.65. The "A" maker mark on the eagle is also unusual. I have seen identical badges shown on other forums and there has never been an issue with them but I suppose we are learning new things all the time. Stephen Previtera shows an identical badge on p294 in his book on Luft Badges. What do the gentlemen of this forum think? Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I’ve been looking very closely at this badge type over the past few months, ever since the opportunity of having an example in-hand. When I first saw these badges I thought Assmanns use of dies used in the earlier production of the aluminium series acceptable, and in fact commendable during a time when high quality steel used in the production of dies was a hard commodity to come by. These thoughts combined with photos available, and the opinions given by owners were enough to give enough confidence that these pieces were period. Then one was put in the palm of my hand and all positive thoughts were quickly put to one side. My first reaction..Why the Juncker eagle? And poorly produced! Compare the eagles…Assmann (left) Juncker (right) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Next.....atypical rivets. Next…..The A maker mark on the eagle. Found on known fakes and post war marked pieces. Left: mark found on post war fake flak badge. Right: Post war mark found on original 1st pattern Observer's badge by Deumer. So, not so clear-cut as once thought, and not for my collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 As requested, the flak and Observer's badge with the bogus Assmann mark. flak: Obverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Reverse: Maker mark: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Original 1st pattern Observer's badge by Deumer. Obverse: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 reverse with bogus maker mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 JTW, I agree with what you are saying overall, but my eye sees two distinctly different eagles in post #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 JTW, I agree with what you are saying overall, but my eye sees two distinctly different eagles in post #2. Exactly my point, Scott. If this badge type was original it would have the Assmann eagle shown on the left of the comparison in post # 2. it doesn't, it has a poorly produced Juncker eagle shown (right) in the same comparison shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Well, it certaintly does not look good for my badge....... Anyone got a nice original for sale? Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsten S Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Well well. Seems like you guys have also been busy discussing the Assmann badge over here. Cheers Karsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Ok, here is a clue to another type of badge that should be a cause for concern for collectors Same maker mark either stamped at the time of post war production or post war stamp to a period piece.... ...so time to check those summer eagles. I tried to find the full frontal/reverse shots of this early droop-tailed summer eagle in gold but alas no luck. Here however is a poor shot of the reverse of perhaps the same badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K. Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I do not have one of these in my collection. I have never thought they were good for enecdotal reasons (nippled rivits!). I think the analysis here by JTW, especially concerning the maker's mark, makes a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K. Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) double post Edited October 27, 2009 by Steve K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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