newly acquired uniform:

[joe campbell]

each year i buy myself a christmas present.

this year i finally persuaded a close friend to

part with one of his uniforms. i don't collect

uniforms, but wanted one - and one only...

no slippery slope here - to pull things together

in my display room.

so i got a prussian infantry oberleutnant's parade tunic

along with the parade visor. the bullion shoulder

boards have the gold pip and a 9 on them. there

are loops on the left breast in two places.

one is pretty obviously going to get an EK 1,

although it might be for a wound badge or

qualification badge.

my question involves the second set of loops.

these loops are located above the vertical loops notes above.

they are horizontally oriented and set apart

by ~7 cm, and i would suspect are for a ribbon

bar. or could they be for a medal bar as well?

which would be more appropriate for these loops -

a medal bar or a ribbon bar?

what awards might be appropriate, given the vague

and non-specific info i have provided?

EK 2?

long service cross?

other states bravery medals?

i appreciate any guidance you might provide.

this is a stunningly beautiful uniform with essentially

no specific provenance, and i would like to

complete it reasonably accurately.

many thanks,

joe

[Guest Rick Research]

Pictures, pictures pictures!

This is a FIELD GRAY tunic, or a BLUE one?

Black Vs on white board underlay?

Must have precise type, era, and so on.

[Bob Hunter]

"...one and one only." Famous last words.

[joe campbell]

bob- REALLY! this will be the one and only!!!

rick- since i can't scan this, it may be a little while

until i get some photos

BUT...

deep, crisp prussian blue with red piping around

the boards, the flaps, etc. cuffs and collar are

red. buttons (three on each cuff, six on back tail,

eight on front) are gold and still have some

lacquer finish on them.

material is doeskin with 1 2mm moth nip on back of collar

and a few areas of tracking on both visor and tunic.

in this PARADE configuration, will there more likely

be a ribbon bar or a medal bar?

and what medals?

i know this is basic, but i want to complete this

project correctly.

vielen danke!

joe

[Daniel Murphy]

Joe,

Does it have the "paddle" boards or regular straps? If Paddles, I would say medal bar, if just regular straps then ribbons. Next question, what is the extreme spread of the loops for the medal bar. This would give us an idea of how many awards he had. Oh, Joe, one more thing, "We want pictures!!!"

Dan Murphy

[joe campbell]

i also got some more info on the uniform...

purchased from brian ward.

he practically choked when saying that this is

"pre-war" manufacture, but said it is the style

of parade/walking out that could have been

purchased from ~1895-1916.

they are not banjo boards, dan. they are

a soft gold bullion, dress quality.

the colors are vibrant and the condition of

the material is outstanding.

i will get photos ASAP.

thanks,

joe

[Guest Rick Research]

Shoulder boards detachable or sewn in? No silver tape running back to front midway under the boards?

Grenadier Regiment 9 was (weirdly) the only one of those units NOT to have Litzen, but my basic "knowledge" of pre-WW1 uniforms doesn't extend to knowing whether red was the correct underlay for that unit's boards before the war when such did NOT indicate branch of service, but Corps affiliation in infantry units.

It sounds like a pre-war service tunic, if the boards are not removable. I can find several candidates for a ribbon bar (the Old Style) before the war, but nobody with anything pinback in this rank or unit before the war. This model of straps (red underlay) went out with the M1915--which turned all infantry line regiments to white underlay.

It is possible that an EX-officer chose to wear his 1914 fancy blue AFTER the war with wartime awards-- have seen this numerous times in photos, but unusual. He would have had to have been a peacetime young Leutnant only promoted to Oberleutnant during the war and just added a pip to make his final rank onto the old peacetime straps. The loops themselves now become VERY important to determining whether they are in fact original to the period or added later to "dress up" a perfectly nice tunic as so many monkey-fingers have done over all the long years since this was made.

[joe campbell]

the boards are slip-ons.

here is one i took off. these are bullion wire

boards of great quality.

hope this helps.

joe

[Guest Rick Research]

Removable boards would allow this to be transformed into full dress by adding the "banjo" epaulettes. With shoulder boards like this, a ribbon bar was correct, not a medal bar. Though the loops could well be for a medal bar, as ribbon bars were not always worn before the war on daily service dress.

[Les]

One and only huh? I remember thinking the same thing when I got my first tunic, and then went on to buy a couple of dozen more..... There's no slippery slope, it's a cliff.

Welcome to the club.... <grin>

As long as you're wanting to do the tunic up right, don't forget about a belt. If you go the route of making the tunic a full dress one, then the belt is supposed to be brocade....and there's the option of a sash, and let's not forget about a standard line officer's "Helme" with spike and/or Trichter. A dress sword (Stechdeggen) is an option. This particular look is much better look instead of standard Achselstueck (boards), leather belt, and Schirmutze....

Les

[Stogieman]

Too bad you didn't know a bit more about your man.... something like this would look spiffy, but probably incorrect for the man/unit.

[joe campbell]

that is the precise style i am looking for rick!

what is ribbon #3?

thanks,

joe

[Stogieman]

Hi Joe, third ribbon is Bavarian Military Merit (Cross or Order).. probably a cross for 1914. This is an officer bar, but your unit I think would not have this combination. We must patiently await the appearance of the "Divine & (Truly) Most Evil Twin" to appear and tell us what would be probable.

[Stogieman]

perhaps the technical difficulties has prevented the "Other Rick" from visiting....... Any pix of the tunic yet Joe so we can really get our teeth into this?

[dwmosher]

Joe:

Your slip-on boards do not go with the tunic. The underlay for G.R. 9 was white. Presuming the boards are pre-war, they most likely started out on J.B.9 or P.B.9 (both Prussian). The good news is the configuration of your blue officer's waffenrock would allow you to find a proper set of boards fairly easily. BTW, is there any additional piping around the Brandenburg cuffs?

Dave

[Bob Hunter]

When we get the pronouncement from the Grand Poobah perhaps one of these would work...

[Bob Hunter]

...or this

[Bob Hunter]

...maybe even this but it's a longshot.

[Bob Hunter]

...and maybe this as a really, really long shot!