Zeppelin Doc & Stickpin

[Luftmensch]

Der Ritt has listed the following document and stickpin for sale...

http://www.derrittmeister.com/justin.htm

I think he's confusing the signer's identity with the Zeppelin station Nordholz.

Questions:

1. Does anyone know who signed this?

2. Did this individual replace Strasser as Fuhrer d.L. ?

3. These rough and ready Abschriften....is this a copy of a more official looking form or the original document done up cheap and quick? Are these typical of late-war documents? They are certainly easier to fake. Any opinions on the authenticity of this document?

Nice stickpin. Would be nice to find a full-size this fancy.

Rgds

[Daniel Murphy]

I do not believe this is a promotion document, perhaps just that the individual had been appointed to the command of a zeppelin at his current rank. The appointment could have been verbal late in the war and this could very well be a catch up document for the officer's records. The stickpin is stated to be the insignia of the Marine Luftschiffer Verein, a veterans organization formed of personnel who served on naval zeppelins during the war. That is what the M. L. V. on the insignia stands for. I have never seen this insignia before and have no idea if a full size badge was made. As with most of his items, I believe it is grossly overpriced.

Dan Murphy

Edited December 18, 2005 by Daniel Murphy

[Luftmensch]

Yeah, it looks like a catch-up document. Wasn't everybody grounded in December 1918 or dismantling their airships to ship overseas? I'd even settle for a t-shirt with that Zep badge on it...

[Daniel Murphy]

Yes, I know, it is a beauty. Very high quality piece that one. A real Zep badge is something that has eluded me to date..

Dan Murphy

[Stogieman]

Well that's odd, I'm pretty sure Ken maintains a pretty constant supply of them. It's a pity so many of his German sources take such advantage of him as he has a very real passion for this hobby.

[Rick]

Der Ritt has listed the following document and stickpin for sale...

Questions:

1. Does anyone know who signed this?

2. Did this individual replace Strasser as Fuhrer d.L. ?

This citation to addressed to Oblt.z.S. (Alfred) Liesmann, formerly an XO (Watchoffizier) aboard the L 56 and L 64. It is signed by Korvettenkapit?n Paul Werther, the F.d.L. and successor to Strasser. Source: "The Zepplin in Combat" by Dr. Douglas Robinson. R.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Rick

[Guest Rick Research]

The document merely states that Liesmann was qualified as an airship commander. The badges for airships hadn't even been created at this time.

[Luftmensch]

Werther...well done, Rick. All my reference books are in storage temporarily. I should stick to Pez dispensers until I can rescue my references, but I think they're faking those, too.

Given the dismal ratio of fake to real Zep badges, does anyone have an opinion on such a simple Zep document like this? All one needs is an ink stamp...

[Rick]

I think the document is fine. I certainly can't speak to the badge, er - stick pin. R.

[Guest Rick Research]

One DOES wonder whether $2,350 is quite an enormous BIT much for an extremely obscure (except to me, acourse ) officer, who only joined the naval airship service in March 1917 (just as it was winding down, I'd have thought-- he was running number 99 of 134 NAS officers to serve) and whose long and hopefully happy life for half a century thereafter never involved aviating again.

I find L-58 destroyed in an accident at mooring 5 January 1918, though L-64 survived to be scrapped (or sabotaged rather than surrendered). Were either of these ever actually in combat, that late in the war?

As of the February 1918 Naval Rank List he had only acquired the EK2, which does not make one suppose either of his two airships were involved in titanic actions showering their crews with decorations.

So, what is an airship Association tie pin "worth?" What is a scribbled piece of paper presumably bumping up an outgoing officer's pay allowances but who never FLEW as an Airship Commander "worth?" On THIS Scale Of Value....

let's just say that someone who thinks the Naval Air Station was the commanding officer does NOT inspire confidence.

Who B-U-Y-S such things, at such prices?

[Luftmensch]

EXCELLENT points, Rick!--and effective use of emoticons. I think there is more inter-departmental than inter-national maneuvering in this group...

Like I said. I just want a t-shirt with that badge on it.

[Stogieman]

I think DonHoHo had 3 General Bader T-Shirts..... they had a Zep Badge, Observer & Pilot... the story was General Bader wore them under his dress tunic when visiting variuous aviation units prior to 1918... of course they are only for sale with matching General Bader "Tighty-Whitey's"......... but hey, isn't that what Christmas is for??

[Ulsterman]

Was he Wachtoffizier of L-56 or L-58?

I thought L-56 had extensive North Sea patroling experience.

[Guest Rick Research]

L-58 per the Honor Rank List and the MOV's account of airship officer assignments.

Now I'm thinking of Rudolf Souval's WW2 LDO code number....

[Daniel Murphy]

I'm pretty sure Ken maintains a pretty constant supply of them

Rick,

Like I said a REAL zeppelin badge is something that has evaded me to date.

Dan Murphy

Edited December 20, 2005 by Daniel Murphy

[Rick]

L-58 per the Honor Rank List and the MOV's account of airship officer assignments.

Yes, agreed. sorry, the L 58. Hey sometimes the fumble fingers type and sometimes they just fumble. R.