EK2 for service at homefront?

[westfale]

Hi!

After putting this picture in the ek2-section I try it also here and hope for help!

Could it be possible that this ek2 is given for homeservice? In my oppinion the bavarian König-Ludwig-Kreuz was given for homeservice and without any award for bravery. Is this true? If yes, this must be an ek2 for homeservice - or not? An if not - why is didn't wear any other bavarian award like the MVK?

Hope to get some more information 

Thanks 

westfale

[HeikoGrusdat]

hmmmmmm.... why do I remember that picture... ?

As far as I know the bavarian Ludwigscross was given to people of the bavarian army who could not expect to get any bavarian bravery award ever.... of course history and known pictures tell us that sometimes a LC owner got a MVK later because he came in another unit , position or whatever... so this is MAYBE a home service iron cross and MAYBE NOT - for exactly 50% I would say... :cool:

[westfale]

hmmmmmm.... why do I remember that picture... ?    

cheers, heiko! 

But thanks for your help - I try to get as much as possible information... 

[Tom Y]

Sorry, can't kelp you with the EK question, but I find the lion on his cap interesting. I have one of those little lions but never knew what it was for. Why that instead of a Kokarde?

[Chris Boonzaier]

I Have a couple of sets with the Prussian war service cross and EK2, One awardexd to a bavarian soldier, wounded, invalided out, then working as a civilian he got the service cross.

It is indeed out of the loop for a normal soldier, but possible.

Best

Chris

[Ulsterman]

As I recall Rick L. often quoted a number of @ 6,700 EK2s awarded for service in the homeland on the black/white ribbon.

[Chris Boonzaier]

As I recall Rick L. often quoted a number of @ 6,700 EK2s awarded for service in the homeland on the black/white ribbon.

Question for a champion.............

would they have been awarded to non Prussians? Would homeland Bavaria (as opposed to combat units outside the borders) be allowed to award Prussian awards? and would the prussians do it for them?

I am guessing for homeland services Bavarians did not get the EK, but rather a Bavarian award.

A guess based on gut feeling...

[Ulsterman]

As I recall they were a company level award and then confirmed. There are all sorts of non Prussians listed in the "EK2 List: 1914-15" booklet that Glen unearthed a few years ago.

Some were really interesting-Lazarett NCos, train guys, navy bureaucrats, etc..

[Chris Boonzaier]

As I recall they were a company level award and then confirmed. There are all sorts of non Prussians listed in the "EK2 List: 1914-15" booklet that Glen unearthed a few years ago.

Some were really interesting-Lazarett NCos, train guys, navy bureaucrats, etc..

But were there bavarians?

a couple of points that are on my mind

1) What do you mean by company level?

2) Bavarian generals commanding divisions in the field could award EKs BMVK etc... but was there a central authority back in Bavaria for home front units? Things were more ordered in the homefront, it would have been easier to have established lines of hierachy.... any ideas?

Best

Chris

[Ulsterman]

Company level-as in the Oberlt./Hauptman made the determining recommendation and the Lt. Colonel or Major said "ja" and on up the line to confirmation.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Company level-as in the Oberlt./Hauptman made the determining recommendation and the Lt. Colonel or Major said "ja" and on up the line to confirmation.

Ah, OK, einverstanden. thought you meant the EK was decided at comapny level and simply rubber stamped at a higher one.

depending on the division the application could have had an easy or difficult ride. I have one list that landed on a divisional commanders table and for every guy approved, one was not.

Basically I wanted to head off the idea that is very prevalent that EK awards in WW1 were made at a lower level than in WW2 and that is why there are more.

My thought to the above, coupled with the homefront dude is that "at the front" the Compagnie commander may have more influence, on the homefront less medals are being handed out and (IMHO) it is harder for a lower rank to get one.

Why would a non combatant home front bavarian get a PEK and not the Bavarian version for paper pushers?

best

Chris

[Ulsterman]

A couple of thoughts-

Perhaps status and luck/location. I note that a surprising number of staff wallah types got these and the same continues on today.

[Ulsterman]

Having had a look at the list there are LOTs of rear eschelon Bavarians on it-"Stab of the Shiesschule" usw.

[westfale]

@all:

Thanks for an REALLY interesting discussion about my questions and some really new information for me!!!

Due to the lion at his cap - was he an "militärbeamter"? Or was it only the sign for bavarian forces at ww1?

Here the full picture of him, if someone is interested in:

[Chris Boonzaier]

Having had a look at the list there are LOTs of rear eschelon Bavarians on it-"Stab of the Shiesschule" usw.

Very interesting indeed... actually a brain fart on my side, ignoring a fact straring me in the face.... I cede the point.

my theory was, there were enough Bavarian awards to cover the home front, why use Prussian... but that question would have to be for Black ribboned homefront and white ribboned... and as I have a bavarian white ribboned group... it is not logical to question the black.

I must check the dokument when I get home and see if it was awarded from a Prussian or bavarian office.

That aside...

to the guy in the photo... the possibilities are endless... I have a few docs to members of the occupation govt in Belgium (for instance)... one was responsible for libraries in Belgian cities... got the black ribboned EK for service outside of the homeland.

I dont think we could pin down where any why he got this without a glance at his militärpass, or award docs...

Best

Chris