barzda Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 EK-2, 1870.(42,1 x 42,3 mm,) What is your opinion? thanks,
joe campbell Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 a bold "W" on the obverse... perhaps a Wagner? appears to be a nice EK! joe
RAO Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 I think 1870. Look also here. The core is from the Kgl. Berliner Eisengießerei. Greetings Mike http://www.medalnet.net/Iron_Cross_1870.htm
barzda Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 Believed, that the dimensions must be no larger than 42 mm.... there is 42,1 x 42,3 mm . Whether this is good ?
RAO Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 The cross is good, read the article. There were several manufacturers of the frame. The "large" crosses are only a problem if it still shows the other features of the "Neunpunktfälschung". What is the english word for this? ;o) Greetings Mike
barzda Posted April 2, 2010 Author Posted April 2, 2010 (edited) Thanks, In Russian forums don't like the number "7"(the slightly leaning) on date 1870 , and cross size .... maybe will be more opinions yet .... Edited April 2, 2010 by barzda
RAO Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Wow, very interesting, I must to look other crosses for comparison.Thanks + Regards Mike
saschaw Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Still no problems with the cross. There are slightly variations within the "Type A" cores. The "large" crosses are only a problem if it still shows the other features of the "Neunpunktfälschung". What is the english word for this? ;o) The English term is 9th bead fake, actually Neuntpunktfälschung in German.
barzda Posted April 4, 2010 Author Posted April 4, 2010 Weight of this cross - 18.3 grams...... I think, everything is said .....
barzda Posted April 4, 2010 Author Posted April 4, 2010 (edited) .......... Edited April 4, 2010 by barzda
Brian Wolfe Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Hello Everyone, I've been following this post since it began with the hope of learning more about the Iron Cross in gereral and I have not been disappointed. Having said that, I am still a bit confused. Regarding post #17, is this meant to show the soldering of the two halves of the frame? If so, what are the concerns? I read the link and found it very informative indeed and the soldering looks alright to me. Perhaps there is a detail regarding the ribbon ring's connector which is attached to the cross frame? Also, I am really confused by the term "9th bead fake". I tried to count the number of beads in the crowns shown in the link but I was unable to figure out exactly what this anomaly is. Sorry for being "thick" this morning but could someone please enlighten me as to what is being referred to? Thanks in advance for your assistance. So much to learn so little time. Regards Brian
barzda Posted April 4, 2010 Author Posted April 4, 2010 1.- 18.3 gr- weight is too high. "At the lower end of the scale is 16 grams. However, it is important to note that no example weighed over 17.6 grams"- http://www.medalnet.net/Iron_Cross_1870.htm 2. - the dimensions also are not ideal ..... 3. - strange the number "7"...
Brian Wolfe Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 1.- 18.3 gr- weight is too high. "At the lower end of the scale is 16 grams. However, it is important to note that no example weighed over 17.6 grams"- http://www.medalnet.net/Iron_Cross_1870.htm 2. - the dimensions also are not ideal ..... 3. - strange the number "7"... Hello barzda, What I do not understand is that you asked for opinions and the members seem to me to be saying that this is genuine. Yet you seem to be supporting the idea that is is not genuine. If you are convinced it is a fake then either don't purchase it or if you have purchased it ask for your money back. No offence to "medalnet" but what makes this person an expert conpaired to any one of the more seasoned collectors on this forum? I'd take the advice of the membership here at GMIC as gospel and if you don't want to accept their opinions then don't keep the medal. Does any one person know all there is to know about a subject and a process that occurred perhaps a hundred years before they were born? Is the "weight issue" a critical matter or are the weights for genuine crosses simply a guideline? If your response after my post was an answer to my question then I am still at a loss. I'm hoping that the same membership, whom you are not inclined to believe, will enlighten me as to what the "9th bead fake" is about. Also by your images are you trying to show poor soldering or exactly what are you trying to show? Please don't take this as a criticism, I'm just trying to learn from this post for the day when I may be trying to add one of these crosses to my own collection. Regards Brian
RAO Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 For me, the cross is original. Unfortunately, my English not good enough to explain this with the 7, but I do not consider it a problem and all other details are ok. @ barzda If you continue to have doubts but sell it on Ebay, I think you do not feel guilty. ;o) Greetings Mike
barzda Posted April 4, 2010 Author Posted April 4, 2010 (edited) 1. I wanted to buy this cross, and I just want to know the opinion of other forum members 2. I'm not saying that this cross is a fake, I only show where is the "problem" and uncertainties - weight, dimensions, number "7"... 3. In "medalnet" the same article, as from BDOS http://www.bdos.de/m...n/ausgabe59.pdf - many collectors use it for authenticity determination EK2-1870 (since there is nothing better...) 4. on 3 forums, raises doubts about this cross... On wehrmacht-awards.com I can't open a theme, since I'm not a member of this forum (would be interesting to know the views and then)... 5. about "9th bead fake" I don't say anything ...... 6. on post #17 is picture - "connecting ring are open (unsoldered)"- and everything ... (sorry of my English) Edited April 4, 2010 by barzda
RAO Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 (edited) We are talking only about the type A. It says: "Where the height and width only rarely. The article also states that several jewelry manufactured the frames, so it comes to small deviations. The comparison of the data refers mainly to the comparison with the more 9th bead fake (Neunpunktfälschung). barzda, I think your cross is a wide frame version and therefore a little larger and heavier. I hope you can understand what I mine. Maybe it is for not native speaker a little bit heavy the intricacies of the article to understand. Greetings Mike Edited April 4, 2010 by RAO
barzda Posted April 6, 2010 Author Posted April 6, 2010 post #43 - here is an interesting information. Maybe someone will benefit ... http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=358392&page=3
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