Kriegsmarine U-Boot badge identification

[Michel]

Hello,

I found this U-Boot badge, I have my idea on the maker but I will be curious to know your opinions.

Thanks in advance,

Michel

[paul w]

Hi Michel,from the front it looks like a Klein and Quenzer but the hardware,well that looks like the sort of set up Maybauer put on their WW1 u boat badges.Is it a tombac badge?Cheers,

Paul

[Michel]

Hello Paul,

The badge is in tombak.

Best regards,

Michel

[Martin W]

Hi Michel,

a tombak Wachtler & Lange,perhaps?

Regards,Martin.

[Gordon Williamson]

I'd agree, either Wächtler & Lange or Klein & Quenzer. Both used a virtually identical design for their badges - the only makers that Michel's badge matches.

[Michel]

I'm OK with you, but my opinion is for a Wächtler & Lange some minor differences appear, now for me it is the first time that I see this type of U-Boot badge in tombak. Did somebody see one ?

[Martin W]

I think the badge displays a very similar reverse set up as K&Q EKI's,especially with the "C"-wire catch.

Regards,Martin.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Martin W

[Gordon Williamson]

We now know that this exact style of badge was made for sure by Wächtler & Lange and Klein & Quenzer and also probably by Steinhauer & Lück.

I have never seen a K&Q badge in Tombak but for sure W&L made at least a Minesweeper in Tombak. Collectors Guild also has a virtually identical Tombak piece (obverse) but slightly different reverse fittings to Michel's badge. The Collectors Guild example has a type of pin and clip which was for sure used by both W&L and S&L.

There are some minor issues around the shape of the rudder which seems to be perfectly square on some examples and tapering slightly from wider at the top to narrower at the bottom on some others. This may or may not eventually give some clues as to manufacturer. Both the Collectors Guild Tombak example and the known "100" marked W&L Zinc example have square rudders.

At least one of the examples which some have attributed to S&L has the tapered rudder.

Here is a comparison between a "100" marked Zink "W&L" and the Collectors Guild unmarked Tombak example.

[Gordon Williamson]

The piece being sold by Pete Whamond on Collectors Guild is a very nice example and reasonably priced considering its rarity, compared with prices often asked for other makers which are much more common.

The distinctive catch was used by both W&L and S&L. Shown here is the catch on a Tombak W&L Minesweeper.

The question now is whether Michel's example came from the same tooling as the Collectors Guild piece.

[Norm F]

I think the badge displays a very similar reverse set up as K&Q EKI's,especially with the "C"-wire catch.

Regards,Martin.

Hi Martin,

The K&Q EK1s that I've found all have the round wire "C" catch not the ?-shape catch (see attached). Likewise I couldn't find other W&L badges yet with this catch. S&L used the ?-shape catch quite frequently however.

I realize that this is only one factor to consider, and we still don't know if there was some working relationship between S&L and W&L.

Best regards,

---Norm

[Martin W]

Hi Martin,

The K&Q EK1s that I've found all have the round wire "C" catch not the ?-shape catch (see attached). Likewise I couldn't find other W&L badges yet with this catch. S&L used the ?-shape catch quite frequently however.

I realize that this is only one factor to consider, and we still don't know if there was some working relationship between S&L and W&L.

Best regards,

---Norm

Thanks Norm,

i looked at a couple of images this morning that were straight on shots.It was easy to see that the catches were of "C" wire stock but hard to see how they were applied to the reverse.

Cheers,Martin.

[Norm F]

And here's something quite interesting.

Two S&L tombak Destroyer badges. The top one is maker marked "4" and has the same setup as the Collectors Guild U-boat, and the bottom one is non-maker marked and has the same setup as Michel's badge.

Best regards,

---Norm

[Gordon Williamson]

All of which is very interesting but sadly doesn't take us much further forward,though the match of the hardware on the unmarked Destroyer to Michel's U-Boat is interesting, we need to establish if Michel's Badge is a 100% match to both the assumed S&L Zinkers and also the Collectors Guild piece. If it is not a perfect match to the CG piece, then we may have found two makers of this Tombak type. If it is a match then we still have no way of positively identifying the CG badge which seems to have perfectly matching die characteristics for W&L but hardware used by both W&L and S&L.