Chris Boonzaier Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 A fake EK doc from WW1 is usually a rather rare bird... but this is one of the most enticing ones... I have seen 3 offered, they are just plain wrong, but if real would be so super sexy that even as fake it leaves you wishing "If only !!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Natural trained Sutterlin this is NOT, let alone the gibberish "signature." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 28, 2005 Author Share Posted December 28, 2005 Stamp is "? Komp. Kilimatinde" (to make it more interesting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 28, 2005 Author Share Posted December 28, 2005 But what else makes this so off the wall.... in fact, it is all so off the wall that my initial thought was "Its so off the wall, it COULD just be GOOD!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 28, 2005 Author Share Posted December 28, 2005 Why is the writing so bad, so uncentered? Would a faker do something like that? It is a generic doc, could have any unit, any war zone, but East Africa was chosen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 28, 2005 Author Share Posted December 28, 2005 Unfortunately saved this to small, they even took the trouble to make it a field press in an east african village... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 OK, paper looks wrong, printing/writing is wrong.... what the heck unit is that supposed to be? Cripes I know doodly about paper and even my poor eyes can see the fake..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Rick, any chance of a brief dissertation on Setterlin somewhere, sometime?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Rick, any chance of a brief dissertation on Setterlin somewhere, sometime??Bob, there are a few places on-line that have Suetterlin-schrift fonts that can be downloaded free. What's neat about them is you can type something on your PC in normal script and then change the font style (and size), print the text out, and....if you have a light table, trace the script. That makes allows almost anayone to start on their way to a career of making fradulent documents.Handwriting alone should not be used as the criteria for good/bad. Ever look at the handwriting of elderly and semi-literate people, or those who have been out of school for quite some time and have blue collar jobs instead of white collar clerical types that require lots of practice writing? I suspect more than a few of us on the list here, may not have the best handwriting in the world either. Although clerks at one time might have been chosen for their handwriting skills, I've seen more than a few Soldbuchs (from both wars) that have entires that are bnadly written.So...look at the rest of a document (grammar, mispellings, correct stamp type, whether the unit that is associated with the document was in the place claimed, if the officer who signed it was actually in the unit, etc, etc) not to mention the paper, inks used to print and sign the documents and so on, and see what does or doesn't add up and weigh those factors more heavily than the handwritinglone. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Les: Sources for fonts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Les: Sources for fonts?Mr. Ed,I downloaded and saved the fonts to a CD a few years ago when I had trouble finding the sites after a computer crash. Sites also have a habit of getting new addresses, etc.However, try this: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-...an+script+fontsA google search brings up the good stuff, and as of the date this is being posted, the first site at the top of the list is a German one I originally used. Check out some of the others for more than straight textual fonts used in books, papers, etc. Almost all of the fonts are "ttf" and consequently can be sized, italicized, and umlauts in another font are carried over. At least one even overscores a curved line above letter "u"s, so they can be told apart from an "n", "m" or a combination of those letters with an "i" etc.Hope this helps, and let me know if you need more information,Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Thanks, Les! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 Another one, at least this one is dated after the action there had started ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 (edited) Another one, at least this one is dated after the action there had started ;-)The first document had the correct company (4th) at Kilimantani.....and the second one is getting cute by listing the third at Linde with the same "major" signing both documents.Check out this link for the German order of battle in East Africa at the commencement of hostilitiies:http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:YvLyU...inde+1914&hl=enFor those who aren't interested in looking it up, or in case the link disappears (been known to happen), here's the list:Einteilung der Schutztruppen * Kommando der Schutztruppen: Berlin - ReichskolonialamtDeutsch-Ostafrika * Kommando Daressalam o 1. Kompagnie: Aruscha o 2. Kompagnie: Iringa und Unbena o 3. Kompagnie: Lindi o 4. Kompagnie: Kilimatinde und Ssingidda o 5. Kompagnie: Massoko o 6. Kompagnie: Udjidiji und Kassulo o 7. Kompagnie: Bukoba, Ussuwi und Kifumbiro o 8. Kompagnie: Tabora o 9. Kompagnie: Usumbura o 10. Kompagnie: Daressalam o 11. Kompagnie: Kissenji und Mruhengeri o 12. Kompagnie: Mahenge o 13. Kompagnie: Kondoa-Irangi o 14. Kompagnie: Muansa und Ikoma * Zus?tzlich in Daressalam: ein Rekrutendepot, eine Signalabt. und Intendatur. * St?rke: o 68 Offiziere o 42 ?rzte o 150 wei?e Beamte, Feuerwerker und Unteroffiziere o 2472 farbige SoldatenMeanwhile, all the -physical- particulars of the document aside, I'll see what I can come up with as regards a lof the officers, NCO's and any of the non-"farbige Soldaten" on the campaign. A unit the size of Lettow-Vorbecks didn't have that many officers as you can see by the list, and I doubt if there were more than two majors on the establishment during this period of the war.Les Edited December 30, 2005 by Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 * St?rke: o 68 Offiziere o 42 ?rzte o 150 wei?e Beamte, Feuerwerker und Unteroffiziere o 2472 farbige SoldatenLesOk...I referred to the 1926 Ehrenranglisten for the Army. (Plug follows: for those of you who don't have an original, or one of Paul C's CDs with this on it, you don't know how much good stuff in in there...) Lettow-Vorbeck in 1914 as the regimental commader of the E.A. Schutztruppen was a Lt. Colonel. At that time, there was only -ONE- major in the regiment, with the last name KEPLER. Kepler was killed near Jassini on 19.1.1915, and his place was taken by Hauptmann Langenn-Steinkeller who held that post until he was killed near Mahenge on 1.4.17.Anyone care to state the obvious on what signature should be on the document if Kepler was killed on 19 January 1915?Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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