Noor Posted August 15, 2010 Share Posted August 15, 2010 Hi, I got yesterday this Austrian Military Merit Cross (Militärverdienstkreuz) and would like to know who was maker "E"? Like I understand second award clasp on the ribbon is pretty common thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iver Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Noor: I see there makers mark "VM" - Vinc. Mayer´s Söhne, Wien. I think the clasp with swords for second award is surely not "pretty common"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Hello, yes, a fine cross made by Mayer's Söhne of Vienna, of the variation with green enamelled Kriegsdekoration. The bar with sword for second award is not common, as said by Iver already. Is the bar struck on the reverse with any mark (Zimbler, etc.)? Best wishes, Elmar Lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted August 18, 2010 Author Share Posted August 18, 2010 (edited) Hi Elmar and Iver, Checked bar now and yes, Zimbler it is! Nicelly attached under the ribbon! Thank you guys, Timo Edited August 18, 2010 by Noor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 So, you're the happy owner of a very fine, perfectly regular Militärverdienstkreuz III Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration und Schwertern with the bar for second award made by the typical, official supplier of such pieces. The green enamelled KD is a "plus". Best wishes, Elmar Lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 (edited) Hello, I would like to expand this interesting topic, adding some pictures of the higher classes of this important award, as instituted from 1914 onwards. First, a series of I Class crosses, beginning with those with KD and KD/Swords (the latter, belonged to FM Conrad v. Hötzendorf); the other pieces of the type with lower grade KD and/or Swords and for peacetime. I also add a picture of the reverse. The II Class crosses, besides the typical KD and KD/Swords, show a rare KD/Swords for 2nd award (with laurel leaves' suspension) and a KD 2nd Class-Swords 3rd Class. The last picture, shows different types of early and later crosses (III Class). All pieces are from my collection. Best wishes, Elmar Lang Edited August 24, 2010 by Elmar Lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 The reverse side: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 A group of II Class crosses: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 ...and a group of early and III Class Militärverdienstkreuze: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trakkles Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 (edited) amazing, best collection I have ever seen about mvk. but were is the second type of mvk (1855-1865)? :-), or is in the upper line in the middle one? it´s a little bit unsharp! regards Trakkles Edited August 24, 2010 by trakkles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Hello, the "second type" cross, let's say the type with added white enamel is the second piece in the top row (with KD). The cross with missing reverse medallion, bears a dedication from the "Luftschifferabteilung". Best wishes, Elmar Lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 Thanks guys for all your help and posts! This award will stay with me as long as I am involved to phaleristics! I just love it! Elmar, what a great collection... they look very addictive collecting items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Rietveld Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 Dear Enzo, this evening i have a bit time to reflect on the breathtaking collection of military merit crosses you presented a few days before. What a pleasure to look at. I must have taken years to bring them together. What do we have here in the first picture: A MVK 1/KDS (Wardecoration/Swords) a MVK 1/KD (Wardecoration only) a MVK 1/KD2S (Wardecoration of 2nd Class, Swords) a MVK 1/KD2 another MVK 1/KD2S a MVK 1 only 75 MVK 1 have been awarded to Fieldmarshalls, Central Power Nobility, Central Power High Ranking officers. Seven MVK 1/KDS; six MVK 1/KD in Brilliants, two MVK 1/KDS in Brilliants and 60 MVK 1/KD. All possible combinations have been produced as Vorlagestücke but IMHO only MVK 1/KD and MVK 1/KDS have been really awarded. So Enzo, your MVK 1/Variants are Vorlagestücke? They have the matching Marschall-Look. MVK 1 is a Reiter piece? When did you get the Hötzendorf MVK 1/KDS ?? Then we have two nice MVK 2/KDS (different swordvariants) and one MVK2/KD and one very special MVK 2/KDS repeated second award indicated by the additional oak leave. Established in early 1918 they awarded only six MVK 2/KDS repeated second award. I like the old ones especially. Maybe we talk about them later. Well Enzo that is really enough for minimum 3 collections. Thanks for showing. What matching Etuis (cases) do you have? josef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 (edited) Dear Josef, thank you very much for your comments and especially for your interesting historical information. The MVK I KD/Schw. belonged to FM Conrad was acquired in the '90s at HH in Munich when a group of orders and decorations attributed to him was put for sale (on that occasion, I've bought also the Verdienststern v. Roten Kreuze / KD). My only cased MVK I is Conrad's one. The MVK I Cl. "Friedensdekoration" is also a Marschall type piece and all pieces are struck with the right marks. Of course, besides the first two pieces illustrated (I Cl. KD and I Cl. KD/Schw.), all other pieces have to be considered as "Vorlagestücke", since the monarchy didn't survive the war... I think that these curious pieces are also interesting although never awarded, because most probably the majority of them were destroyed, in the need of precious metal. According to the plate in Michetschläger, there should be more combinations... but I don't remember which ones, now. One day, I would like to undertake a research in order to ascertain on how many pieces were ordered, made, and -later- destroyed. Who knows, maybe in the KA there could still exist papers. The MVK II Cl. KD/Schw. f. Zweimalige Verleihung, yes it's also rare. Thank you for the precise data about the number of such awards. I knew that such double awards happened to MVK KD/Schw. only. Is that true? Looking at the green enamelled wreath, I see that it's composed of laurel and not oak leaves. I agree that early MVK and their variations are most interesting!... Best wishes, Elmar Lang Edited August 27, 2010 by Elmar Lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Rietveld Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Dear Josef, .....I knew that such double awards happened to MVK KD/Schw. only. Is that true? Looking at the green enamelled wreath, I see that it's composed of laurel and not oak leaves. ... Best wishes, Elmar Lang Sorry laurel leaves, as you mentioned all six repeated awards of the MVK 2 were versions WITH swords. If you are intersted i have the six names also. I will give my small contribution to this topic. I have one single MVK 2/KD (Marschall, Maker Souval) but i will show my 1st Type MVK. regards Josef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Rietveld Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 plus case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 (edited) Hello, the 1st type MVK posted by Josef, is a very fine example of this high-ranking decoration; being the piece complete with its original etui, makes the whole even more interesting and rare to see (btw., the etui with dedication from the Kriegsmappierungsabtlg. N° 6 due to its quality, is something a collector of dedicated/named pieces, would dream about). Knowing the names of the 6 officers with the double award of the MVK II Kl KD/Schw., would be most interesting to us all, thank you! Best wishes, Enzo (Elmar Lang) Edited August 27, 2010 by Elmar Lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Rietveld Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) Hello, the 1st type MVK posted by Josef, is a very fine example of this high-ranking decoration; being the piece complete with its original etui, makes the whole even more interesting and rare to see (btw., the etui with dedication from the Kriegsmappierungsabtlg. N° 6 due to its quality, is something a collector of dedicated/named pieces, would dream about). Knowing the names of the 6 officers with the double award of the MVK II Kl KD/Schw., would be most interesting to us all, thank you! Best wishes, Enzo (Elmar Lang) Dear Enzo, the dedicated etui was a lucky hit at the dorotheum inside is a standard MVK 3rd Class KD. Normálly I can't afford buying dedicated pieces. Here the names for the repeated award of the MVK 2/KD (all with swords) which was established per February/23rd April 1918: Oberst Rudolf Vidossich (27.2.1918) FML Josef Hrozny Edler von Bojemil (12.8.1918) FML Stanislaus von Puchalski (12.8.1918) FML Aurel von Le Beau (24.8.1918) FML Dr. Karl Bardolff (24.8.1918) - MMTO-knight, Pour le Merite, historian and writer, later SA-Oberführer, Reichstagsabgeordneter, General der Infanterie (1939) but saw no active service during WWII lived from 1865 to 1953 GM Karl Soos von Badok (9.11.1918) regards josef Edited August 28, 2010 by Josef Rietveld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John5813 Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Josef, Do you have statistics as to how many MVK2's were awarded in total and how many went to non-Austro-Hungarian personnel? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimbineus Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 . Gents, This is my modest contribution to this interesting thread. Two different MVKs with green anemaled Kriegsdekorations. One is bronze, the other one is silver, I think. Regards, cimbineus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimbineus Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 . ... and the two cases: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimbineus Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 . Here is a third one with an interesting ribbon bar: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Hello, many thanks to Josef for the precious data regarding the MVK II Kl KD/Schw. for 2nd award. This means that such decoration should be a rare one, also considering that surely more pieces were produced than awarded. My piece shows signs of wear, but honestly, I can't have any idea of the officer who wore it. It's a pity that the pictures posted by cimbineus are not visible: they could be an interesting addition to this thread... Best wishes, Enzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Rietveld Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 (edited) Hello, many thanks to Josef for the precious data regarding the MVK II Kl KD/Schw. for 2nd award. This means that such decoration should be a rare one, also considering that surely more pieces were produced than awarded. My piece shows signs of wear, but honestly, I can't have any idea of the officer who wore it. It's a pity that the pictures posted by cimbineus are not visible: they could be an interesting addition to this thread... Best wishes, Enzo Dear Enzo, you have to check your browser (? ), on my screen ALL pictures are visible. Thanks for showing cimbineus. As you sure know the left case dates before the outbreak of WW1, the right one is post-1914. Per 23rd September 1914 the one-class Military Merit Cross (with and without wardecoration) was recreated in three classes (I., II, III).The former Military Merit Cross became then the new 3rd class. regards josef Edited September 2, 2010 by Josef Rietveld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimbineus Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 ...It's a pity that the pictures posted by cimbineus are not visible: they could be an interesting addition to this thread... Dear Enzo, I have checked everything with my provider and I was told that the pictures are visible. Everything is okay. I kindly ask you to try again. Kind regards, cimbineus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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