Is there a way to restore engraved names?

[Hauptmann]

I have an Indian Mutiny medal which has most of the name missing from the edge. It appears to have been buffed out. I know that things like firearms whose serial numbers have been removed can often have them brought back through use of acid. Is something like this possible to recover such lost information?

I can only clearly make out Chas (the s has an underline). I can see faint remainders of other letters/numbers but not well enough to make them out... just to know that they were there.

Hoping perhaps one of you might have experience with something like this. I wouldn't want to do anything to harm the medal but just bring up the inscription.

Dan

[Michael Johnson]

I have heard that with impressed (but not engraved) naming, it is possible to x-ray the medal edge - apparently there is a thickened shape of each letter due to the impressing which shows up on an x-ray.

[Hauptmann]

Hi Michael. I believe this one is impressed... I'll do up some scans of the edge if I can work it out and will post them. I'll have to check with my doctor who is a member here and is also a Lt. Col. in the National Guard. I'll see if perhaps they ever have to run tests on the X-ray equipment where perhaps he might be able to get them to try doing a shot of the edge to see what we can come up with. Otherwise it might be a bit pricey... but if they have to run a test anyhow then perhaps it won't cost anything, they'll get the info they need and I'll hopefully be able to discover the name and info on this one.

Many thanks!

Dan

[Valter]

Dan, try this link:

http://books.google.si/books?id=p9c6DKvAyn4C&pg=PA570&lpg=PA570&dq=forensics+stamped+serial&source=bl&ots=N5j1NeZrzZ&sig=APFxHCIqsJHh-1IPzeB5_yOILOA&hl=sl&ei=jFeDTNLsCYOHOLbRrYUO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCkQ6AEwBA

page 570 and next

It is mentioned that acid metod will dissolve the metal and ultimately destroy the number for ever, so may the other methods be more appropriate. Also, as I remember from my legal studies, the numbers investigated are usually in steel or iron, which are hard metals, so more pressure is needed to stamp a number, and hence more stress to the surrounding metzal tissue. I'm not sure how it works with silver, which is softer and more mouldable.

Good luck and please let us know if you succeed.

Valter

[Mervyn Mitton]

Dan - very often families will remove detail names before selling them. I think they feel ashamed to be selling. Personally, I would strongly advise against trying any restorer - Michael's suggestion of an x-ray is probably the best. The other safe way - if you have any police contacts - is to ask for help from their forensics departments. Please let us know if you establish anything. One little point - if a name or, rank is underlined it usually means it is an abbreviation.

[Hauptmann]

Thanks everyone for your suggestion on the X-ray. I wish I still had connections in a PD with the proper facilities. I know pretty much everyone on the force here, both PD and Sheriff's Dept. but we're a small town of about 2,500 and don't really have much in the way of CSI type stuff here. Had I still been down in Florida I would have had better luck in that area.

But I've put out the word to my doctor (also a member here and very intro'd in military history) and he's going to see what he can do to help out on this. Keeping my fingers tightly crossed.

Anyhow I finally got a chance to do the scans so without further ado here is it:

[Hauptmann]

[Hauptmann]

And the rim:

Dan

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Dan,

That medal is so close to being able to read that it isn't funny. It's almost but then again not quite... most frustrating.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Regards

Brian

[leigh kitchen]

Try black light, may help.

[Hauptmann]

Try black light, may help.

Hi Leigh. Many thanks for the suggestion. Okay... took me a few days but managed to dig out one of my old black light bulbs. Put it in a small lamp, managed to set the medal on top of a spray bottle and then tried to do some shots with my camera. Not the most professional setup I'm sure but the best I'm able to do. Oh how I wish I had one of those computer microscope dealies as I bet that would help a bit too. But for what it's worth here are the shots that seemed to come out best with the black light.

Hoping perhaps one of you might be able to make a bit more from these. I'm kind of bleary eyed at the mo from staring so intently at it in the black light. But hope it was worth it.

Let me know what ya'll think.

Thanks!!!!

Dan

[Hauptmann]

Here's a couple more shots. Seems to be an SG and also a W right before the . and then F U... if any of that makes any sense or looks that way to ya'll.

Also if that is FU (it definitely looks like an F to me) then could that be an abbreviated Fusiliers? Note the small S again as in the abbreviated form of Charles.

Also after the Chas. (Charles) could be an H... again let me know what ya'll think.

So close... and yet just out of reach. Very frustrating to say the least.

Dan

Edited September 15, 2010 by Hauptman

[censlenov]

CHAs ----------R. W. FUSLs

Hmmm 23rd was definately entitled (as provided by the DNW online roll)

NameUnitRankClaspsBaker, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)CorporalLBatten, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)CorporalRL, LBenbow, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)CorporalLBlake, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)SergeantRL, LBlanc, Charles G.1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)LieutenantLBlewitt, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LBolton, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLCacnell, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)CorporalRL, LCarter, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLCotton, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LDavies, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLDowner, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLEdmonds, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LFeltham, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LFisher, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LFuller, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)Private-Green, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLGregorie, Charles Frederick1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)Lieutenant & AdjutantRL, LGroom, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)CorporalLGurdon, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)DrummerLGwilliam, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLHarris, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)SergeantLHicks, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)DrummerRLHolder, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLHoughton, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLHowells, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LHulland, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)SergeantLJones, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)Private-Kelly, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LKew, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)DrummerRL, LLock, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LMathews, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LMills, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)Private-Monsell, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)CaptainRL, LMorris, Charles Frederick1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)Assistant SurgeonLMullett, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LNorton, Charles G. Campbell1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)CaptainRL, LOsborne, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LPearman, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLReynolds, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LSmith, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LStuck, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)Private-Swain, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLWalmsley, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLWaterhouse, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)Private-Weeks, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)CorporalRL, LWilles, Harry Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)LieutenantRL, LWilliams, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateRL, LWindsor, Charles1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)PrivateLWrench, Charles James1st Bn 23rd Foot (Royal Welch Fusiliers)LieutenantRL, L

[Hauptmann]

Well, my doctor gave the x-ray his best shot but no luck. Don't know if perhaps another type of machine might do anything better but they used a flouroscope and basically the metal was too dense for it to work.

I may see if I can get a dentist to give it a shot but aside from that I've no idea where to go from here.

Will let you know if anything else works.

But my deepest thanks to my doctor, the X-ray tech and the radiologist who so graciously took time from the very busy schedules to try and make this happen.

Dan

[Hauptmann]

I redid the scans of the rim as the first time I did it I think I just held it... this time I used pliers to gently hold it in position on the scanner. I've posted them in my other thread as well:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7724&pid=435957&st=60&#entry435957

[Hauptmann]

[Hauptmann]

And what I think I'm seeing:

[Hauptmann]

[Hauptmann]

Here's what Michael Johnson posted on the other thread:

Charles Harris 1st Battalion H Ms 23rd R W Fusiliers

Charles Hicks 1st Battalion H Ms 23rd R W Fusiliers

Charles Holder 1st Battalion H Ms 23rd R W Fusiliers

Charles Houghton 1st Battalion H Ms 23rd R W Fusiliers

Charles Howells 1st Battalion H Ms 23rd R W Fusiliers

Charles Hulland 1st Battalion H Ms 23rd R W Fusiliers

Getting closer! The proper naming for this regiment is 1st Bn 23rd R.W.FUSrs., which matches the end of the naming quite well.

Many thanks Michael!

Dan