Mervyn Mitton Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Was talking to an interesting young Afrikaaner in the shop yesterday - his name is Lamont Erasmus, and he plans to join GMIC - so please welcome him when he does. He brought in for me to see a Martini Henry rifle - full size, but converted for hunting by removing the forepart of the wooden stock. These old single shot rifles were popular for hunting as the 577/.45 bullet could stop most animals. They were British Army weapons that replaced the rifle in use during the Crimea War of the 1850's. Under British and Commonwealth Militaria there is a good article by Peter Suciu and I also cover them under the heading Zulu Iklwas. What made this particular rifle of great interest, were the letters stamped into the metal of the breech. ZAR 2953. ZAR stands for Zuids Afrikaans Republic and this is the first time I have seen a rifle with this direct identification and armoury number. People tend to think that the Boers only used the Mauser rifle - in fact they had more Martini Henrys. Possibly they bought these as surplus from the British Army - we used them in Sth. Africa during the Zulu War of 1879. The Republic lasted from 1852 to 1902 and ceased to exist after peace with Britain was arranged in 1902. The Boers only had three units who wore uniform - the greater number of their troop were Commandoes, who wore ordinary clothing. The three units who were organised were - The State President's Guard ; The Zuid Afrikaans Republic Police (ZARPS) ; and the Staats Artillery. There is a shorter version of the Martini Henry designed for Artillery, so it is probable that the Armoury number is either for the Police - or, the Presidential Guard. The fact remains that this is the first I have seen with numbering and identification. A few years ago a consignment of Mauser Rifles - with markings for the ZAR, was found in Chile. They were probably unable to deliver them to the Boers since we had a Naval blockade in place - after the War finished they would have been sold by Mauser. They sold for very high prices with the historical connection. I am hoping that our Members will be able to add to the known history on this weapon - and it would be great if we can establish the unit. Lamont has said he wants to sell the rifle - so, when he joins if anyone is interested they can talk to him by IM.
Mervyn Mitton Posted November 23, 2010 Author Posted November 23, 2010 Two views of barrel markings - different exposures in the hopes you can make them out....
peter monahan Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 This is a Mark 4 version of the 'Tini too, with a long lever rather than the short one which was in fact more common. The was a slight tendency for the rifles, when heated by repeated firings, to jam. I believe that the original cartridges, like those for the Snider Enfield, were brass foil on a solid brass base and when they jammed the base came away, leaving the foil in the barrel. One solution for this proble, obviously, was to go to a solid brass cartridge but in the Mks 1-3 these jammed entirely, so the 'long-lever' was an attempt to solve this by giving the user a little more leverage during extraction. BTW, it's these - Mk 4s - that were used in the film Zulu. The Indian Army had thousands of them, one of which I owned in the palmy days of my youth, and they eventually flooded militaria and gunstores across the former empire [in Canada, in the late 1970's]. A lovley gun, still one of my favourite pieces of British issue! Peter
Mervyn Mitton Posted November 24, 2010 Author Posted November 24, 2010 Thankyou, Peter. Very helpful. I also liked your comments on the medals.....
Hauptmann Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 Peter, this reminds me of a documentary (I think it was Secrets Of The Dead-Day Of The Zulu) I saw on the battles of Isandlwana and Rorkes Drift. From what I remember they had found many cartridges on the battlefield that were damaged and they talked about how they had the problems you describe. They also discussed how the ammunition came in boxes that were rather difficult to open without a special tool (If I recall correctly) and this caused problems in keeping up the supply of ammo needed by the troops which all added to the defeat at Isandlwana. I'll have to look through my collection of discs and see if I can find it again. I've always had an interest in these battles ever since seeing Zulu when I was much younger. Dan
Hauptmann Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 Just found this... goes into it in much more depth. http://www.samilitaryhistory.org/vol046fm.html Dan
Michael Johnson Posted November 24, 2010 Posted November 24, 2010 This is a Mark 4 version of the 'Tini too, with a long lever rather than the short one which was in fact more common. I'm not so sure, Peter. The IVs also had a "kick-up" at the back of the breech, which this one doesn't have. And yes, I remember your one. Shall we say it left its mark?
peter monahan Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 I'm not so sure, Peter. The IVs also had a "kick-up" at the back of the breech, which this one doesn't have. Old age is a terrible curse! That and twenty years or more since I handled the Mk 4 "'Tini". Michael is correct: this is not the long lever Mark 4 at all. Mea culpa! The reason for the lever being lengthened, however, is as stated. This site has some nice clear shots of all four models: http://www.martinihenry.com/infantry.htm
Arthur R Posted November 26, 2010 Posted November 26, 2010 The Boers only had three units who wore uniform - the greater number of their troop were Commandoes, who wore ordinary clothing. The three units who were organised were - The State President's Guard ; The Zuid Afrikaans Republic Police (ZARPS) ; and the Staats Artillery. There is a shorter version of the Martini Henry designed for Artillery, so it is probable that the Armoury number is either for the Police - or, the Presidential Guard. The fact remains that this is the first I have seen with numbering and identification. Was the presidential guard definitely a separate unit? I was under the impression that the guard was drawn from the State Artillery. If so, and if this isn't the artillery version of the rifle, then it would point to this being a ZARP rifle.
martini45boxer Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 I live in the UK. I have a MH marked ZAR number 4672. It has been refinished at some time but other than that it is original with no alterations. There is no indication of date or of manufacturer. The left hand side of the butt and forend are stamped JEO. The other markings seem to be the crossed flags for the blackpowder proofing. As an aside I have had the rifle nitro proofed so that it complies with the insurance requirements when using smokeless loads on Brirish ranges. Any information would be most welcome. Thanks, Pete.
Mervyn Mitton Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 Pete - welcome to GMIC. I hope that with your interest in black powder that you will be able to add some interesting posts to this section. Please let us know if you need any help etc.. Mervyn
martini45boxer Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Hi Mervyn, thanks for the welcome. I have taken holidays in SA in 96, 98 and 2000, each time for a period of 7 weeks. My ex wife has relations in the Pinetown area we used to visit. We always stayed at the Bermudas on Lagoon drive Umhlanga Rocks for 2 weeks at each visit. I must confess that at first I didn't want to go to SA because of the political situation, however within 3 days I had fallen in love with the country and the way and standard of life and I seriously considered retiring there. Anyway as the saying goes "life is what happens when you are making other plans", so here I am retired in the UK. I'll post a couple of pics of my martini shortly
Mervyn Mitton Posted November 30, 2011 Author Posted November 30, 2011 Nice weapon - am I reading the number correctly - 4672 - ? I wonder if the records still exist to show who received the weapons ?
peter monahan Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Lovely weapon! First rifle I ever owned was a 'Tini - the long lever Mark 4 - and I still love them. Kipling wrote a great story, with his characters the 'Soldiers Three'. Private Mulvaney has a talk with the armourer sergeant about how the lads are b*****ing up the weapons by putting twigs into the action to ease the trigger pull, which was notoriously hard, especially after the Snider Enfields. Later in the story Mulvaney hears some other Irishmen in the regiment planning to use his rifle to shoot an unpopular officer, so he'll get the blame, so he pulls out the pin which holds the breechblock in, with predictable and ugly results when the would be murderer pulls the trigger. Sorry, can't recall the name of the tale.
jimhallam Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 It is easy to change the lever -- -BUT there should then be evidence of TWO circular indentations on the lower edge of the butt. The "52" is the GAUGE under the 1874 Rules of Proof ---- many Sniders have "25". This means that the rifle was meant for COMMERCIAL sale. Many of the old M-H rifles and carbinbes were converted to .22 -- -the NRA (of GB) had two batches done by Greener --- one of (if my memory serves me well) 5000 in 1906 and a later, smaller batch. These will have a CONVERSIUON serial # starting with an "N". Theyt were sold for peanuts as training rifles to members of NRA-affiliated Clubs. I probably have 15 or 20 in m y gunroom -- -mostly converted by Greener or Bonehill, with a FEW by other companies such as Westley Richards. A typical example will say (on the left action flat) "Converted for the NRA (or SMRC*) by CGBonehill" *SMRC = Society of Miniature Rifle Clubs (now the NSRA) and many will have been rebarrelled with a thinner barrel, with fillets either side of the fore-end channel. We still shoot them in competition in "Historic Arms" Matches in the UK.... and, of course we also use the full-bore versions. Look up "Historical Breechloading Smallarms Association" Jim H.
jimhallam Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Are you the "Mervyn Mitton" who wrote "The Policeman's Lot" ? If so we have a friend in common -- Fred Wilkinson.
Mervyn Mitton Posted July 1, 2013 Author Posted July 1, 2013 Hi - Jim. Yes, he was my old Supt. at Bethnal Green and is now Chairman of PICA - of which I am a member. (Police Insignia Collectors Assoc..) Some good info for the Gun enthusiasts - thankyou for posting. When I was at Geelong - in Aust .- our Cadet Force carried the martini cadet version. I suppose it was much lighter then the Lee Enfield. I expect we must have fired them, but I don't remember now. With regard to cartridges - when I first came to Sth. Africa from 1956-60 you could visit the site of the British Square at the last battle of the Zulu War - Ulundi - 1879. You could follow the exact outline of part of the Square by following the cartridge cases that had been trodden down. Now, of course, long sold to tourists. Mervyn
mickey Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 martini henry rifle the rifle of empire kipling called it a cross eyed bitch due to the recoil i believe after firing 5 or 6 rounds a nose bleed was to be expected here is a drawn brass cartridge made by eley
Michael Johnson Posted March 14, 2022 Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) On 01/12/2011 at 10:35, peter monahan said: Lovely weapon! First rifle I ever owned was a 'Tini - the long lever Mark 4 - and I still love them. Kipling wrote a great story, with his characters the 'Soldiers Three'. Private Mulvaney has a talk with the armourer sergeant about how the lads are b*****ing up the weapons by putting twigs into the action to ease the trigger pull, which was notoriously hard, especially after the Snider Enfields. Later in the story Mulvaney hears some other Irishmen in the regiment planning to use his rifle to shoot an unpopular officer, so he'll get the blame, so he pulls out the pin which holds the breechblock in, with predictable and ugly results when the would be murderer pulls the trigger. Sorry, can't recall the name of the tale. "Black Jack", Peter. In Soldiers Three. I have a copy that was used in a German POW camp. Edited March 14, 2022 by Michael Johnson
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