British Raj SKINNER'S HORSE

[sbintayab]

Congratulation and Welcome dear Mike to this forum........... It is very interesting and full of information....... I know your genius of Skinner's Horse...........

Regards

Shams

[Archer]

Medals still (ahem!) in my custody

Pala Singh, Sowar, 3rd Skinner’s Horse

In September 1914, 3rd Skinner’s Horse was allocated to the Meerut Cavalry Brigade, which was formed under Brigadier-General J.B. Edwards, D.S.O., as a unit of the 2nd Indian Cavalry Division.

The Division sailed from Bombay on 19 November 1914, and arrived at Marseilles in France on 14 December 1914. At times during the months that followed it served in the trenches as infantry, each Cavalry Brigade once dismounted forming a dismounted regiment.

The Indian Cavalry Corps, formed in France in December 1914, was broken up in March 1916 and the Meerut Cavalry Brigade left the 2nd Indian Cavalry Division in June 1916. 3rd Skinner's Horse returned to India and proceeded to Baluchistan, where it won fame in February 1918 when 80 men of the Regiment defended the Gumbaz Post against repeated attacks by tribesmen.

Lieutenant-Colonel J.R. Gaussen, C.M.G., D.S.O., who was appointed to raise and command the 40th Cavalry in April 1918, succeeded to command of 3rd Skinner’s Horse, but remained with the 40th Cavalry, in October 1918. Lieutenant-Colonel J.H. Bennett officiated in command while Colonel Gaussen was away from the Regiment.

The Regiment “put up a good show” in the 3rd Afghan War. Besides acting Lieutenant-Colonel Vere Arthur Coaker, mentioned in despatches and created companion of the Distinguished Service Order, six men were mentioned in despatches for their services: Lieutenant-Colonel E.C.W. Conway-Gordon (on the commands and staff and miscellaneous list); Capt. H.H. Lyons, M.C.; Jemadar Bhagwan Singh; 1450 Daffadar Gurdiyal Singh; 1691 acting Lance-Daffadar Pritam Singh and 2546 Sowar Chajja Singh.

Lieutenant-Colonel E.C.W. Conway-Gordon succeeded to command of the Regiment in 1921.

The 1st Bengal Lancers and 3rd Skinner’s Horse were amalgamated to become Skinner's Horse (1st Duke of York's Own Cavalry) in 1922.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Archer

[Archer]

Dafadar Waryam Singh, 40th Cavalry

The regiment was raised in April 1918 by Lieutenant-Colonel J.R. Gaussen, 3rd Skinner’s Horse, from one squadron of the 1st (DYO) Lancers (Skinner’s Horse), two squadrons of 3rd Skinner’s Horse, and one squadron of the 7th Hariana Lancers. It was designated as the 40th Cavalry, and served on the North-West Frontier.

Col. Gaussen apparently continued to command the regiment even after being appointed to the command of 3rd Skinner’s Horse in October 1918. *

According to the Quarterly Indian Army List for January 1919, the regiment comprised 1½ squadrons of Mussalmans, one squadron of Rajputs, a half squadron of Jats, a half squadron of Sikhs, and a half squadron of Dogras.

The Regiment was disbanded in 1921.

* Brigadier-General James Robert Gaussen, C.M.G., C.I.E., D.S.O. (born in 1871), served in the relief of Pekin in 1900 (wounded; mentioned in despatches; awarded the China Medal and clasp and created D.S.O.); in France, 1916-1917 (commanding a battalion of South Wales Borderers; twice mentioned in despatches; awarded the British War and Victory Medals and created C.M.G.); on the North West Frontier in 1918 (commanding 3rd Skinner’s Horse; raised 40th Cavalry in April 1918; wounded; mentioned in despatches; created C.I.E.); and in the third Afghan War in 1919 (commanding 40th Cavalry; awarded the Indian General Service Medal and clasp). He served as Brigadier-General commanding the forces in East Persia, 1919-1920, and retired in 1921.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Archer

[Archer]

Having problems with attachment! Anyway here it is

[philipruss]

My Great-Uncle Lt. Colonel F.D.Russell, Commander of the 1st Bengal Lancers/The Duke of York’s Own Regt. of Bengal Lancers/Bengal Lancers - Skinners Horse - had the following medals which I would like to regain possession of:

India General Service 1895-1902 two clasps. Punjab Frontier 1897-1898.

Tirah 1897-98, Queen’s SA 1899-1902 two clasps, Cape Colony

Witterbergen. China 1900, 1914-15 Star

British War and Victory Medals, India GSM 1908-35, G.V.R., one clasp,

Afghanistan N.W.F 1919, Delhi Durbar 1911, the China and I.G.S 1908-35

medals officially renamed. He also held The American Order of the

Dragon(USA) – an unofficial award given to American and Allied

defenders of Legations during the so-called “Boxer Rebellion” in 1900

for which he received the China Medal 1900.

Colonel Francis Deane Russell served on the NW Frontier at Buner, was present at the action of Dargai and at the capture of the Sampagna

Pass and took part in the operations in the Bazar Valley 25-30.12.1897, served in South Africa as a Special Service Officer and afterwards on Staff. Mentioned in Despatches 1.1.1915, 15.6.1916 and 18.5.1920.

[peter monahan]

Now that's a group! Nine Service medals. Any info. on where/when the group left the family's hands? It may be that GMIC members know the person who got the group. Even a general time frame and general location [uK, USA,...?] would help.

Peter

[QSAMIKE]

Good Morning Ladies and Gentlemen......

Just read this thread with great interest even though it is not in my collecting field..... But one interesting item..... There was a member of the collecting community here that is a direct relation to the original Skinner who founded the regiment..... Funny thing is he collects Commonwealth Cavalry.....

Mike

[philipruss]

Now that's a group! Nine Service medals. Any info. on where/when the group left the family's hands? It may be that GMIC members know the person who got the group. Even a general time frame and general location [uK, USA,...?] would help.

Peter

Thanks Peter,

I would love to get in touch with the current owner in an attempt to buy them back into the family desperately!

His medals were sold by Spinks by auction in November 2003 for 1700 pounds plus the hammer. Here are the details of the group:

*Sale 3016 Lot 567 *

Eight: *Lieutenant Colonel F.D. Russell, 1st Bengal Lancers*</I>

India General Service 1895-1902, two clasps, Punjab Frontier 1897-98, Tirah 1897-98 (Lieutenant Francis Deane Russell Ist Regiment of Bengal Lancers); Queen's South Africa 1899-1902, two clasps, Cape Colony, Witterbergen (Lieutenant Francis Deane Russell 1st (The Duke of York's Own) Regt of Bengal Lancers); China 1900 (Bengal Lancers, Skinners Horse); 1914-15 Star (Lt Col F D Russell, 1/Lancers); British War and Victory Medals (Lt Col); India General Service 1908-35, G.V.R., one clasp, Afghanistan N.W.F. 1919 (Lt Col 1/Lncrs); Delhi Durbar 1911, the China and I.G.S. 1908-35 medals officially renamed, the group lacquered, very fine or better</B> (8)

*Estimate £ 400-500*

[peter monahan]

Philip

I'm afraid I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic to track down your family group, but QSA Mike's post refers to someone who might be a good bet to know. Also, I corresponded, many years ago, with a chap in Singapore who's interest was Indian Army cavalry, most specifically the Mutiny period. If he's still out there he may have some clues too. PM me for his name.

Peter

[Toolkit]

Has anything of note occurred in the search for the medals? It would be nice to think that they were back with the family.

[peter monahan]

Toolkit

I suspect the fact that no more info. has been posted here means no, but hard to say for sure: not all memebers stay on and re-read every thread as you've cleary done.

[peter monahan]

On a related note, the Indian Military History Society, of which I was a co-founder in te early 1980s is still alive and well in the UK. Thay have joined the wired world too, with a website at: http://imhs.org.uk/. The Secretary, Mr Tony McLenahan, is tremendously helpful to earnest seekers after knowledge.

And a final footnote: mention was made of the perpetuation of the old regimental customs and traditions. Skinners', like a number of other Indian Army armoured/cavalry regiments have chosen to ignore the current political orthodoxy in India, which describes the Indian Mutiny as the 'first Indian war of independence' and have not only kept a mounte dsquadron and the full dress unifotms of the 'Yellow Boys' but also the battle honours from the Mutiny! To quote a very funny video out of the UK, "Bugger the bankers and politicians too!"

Peter

Edited January 18, 2013 by peter monahan

[Ulsterman]

Good Lord....I had completely forgotten about this.

Some useful tools over the years about Skinners Horse are a series of uniform and equipment articles done for Military Modeling Magazine Uk version) in the 1970s. Col. Grey was interviewed for these articles and o were a lot of other Raj men. I recall the letters page of the magazine was filled with letters like : "Sir, regarding your article of the 15th instant., I distinctly recall wearing white non regulation Jodhpurs on campaign in 1937 ..... " . All good stuff. I recently went out to visit my Dad, who knew Grey very welland he has photos stashed away, as well as an ancient Tulwar, so next time I am out I shall gab them.

[philipruss]

On 06/09/2011 at 14:58, peter monahan said:

Now that's a group! Nine Service medals. Any info. on where/when the group left the family's hands? It may be that GMIC members know the person who got the group. Even a general time frame and general location [uK, USA,...?] would help.

 

Peter

HI Peter,

Location UK

The medals were last sold at auction by Spinks on 05 November 2003.

Philip.

[philipruss]

On 17/01/2013 at 20:28, Toolkit said:

Has anything of note occurred in the search for the medals? It would be nice to think that they were back with the family.

Thanks Toolkit,

Not yet. Still on the hunt and shall certainly report back when I am able to.

best,

philip

[peter monahan]

If they went through Spinks presumably they're in good hands and unlikely to go into anyone's smelter.

Further to my ancient comments on the Yellow Boys and their customs, many many years ago I corresponded with a WWII member of the regiment.  He went back to India - in the '70s, I think - and of course visited his old regiment.  He was welcomed with open arms and taken into the Mess, where he swears the bar stools were made from old polo saddles and asked if he could identify the officers pictured in a series  of caricatures which still hung on the Mess walls from 1943 or so!

Tradition trumps nationalism!

[paul wood]

I believe they are with a collector in North London with Sikh leanings.

Paul

[peter monahan]

[philipruss]

On 14/02/2017 at 17:02, paul wood said:

I believe they are with a collector in North London with Sikh leanings.

Paul

Thanks Paul. Is there any chance of making contact with this perosn?

On 17/01/2013 at 19:28, Toolkit said:

Has anything of note occurred in the search for the medals? It would be nice to think that they were back with the family.

Hi Toolkit, Am still on the hunt. Thanks

On 14/02/2017 at 17:02, paul wood said:

I believe they are with a collector in North London with Sikh leanings.

Paul

Thank you Paul, If this person would be open to making contact with me I would be most pleased. I am back in the UK now. Best wishes, Philip Russell

[paul wood]

Alas he died a few months ago, I have no idea how the collection will be disposed of.

P