Weimar Period Long Service

[army historian]

Hello all. Since the Weimar Republic had no official long service awards - what did serving personnel wear when they reached 15, 20, 25 years long service during this period. Did they wear imperial long service awards, or do without? This has always intrigued me. From a lot of bars - it appears to me they wore Imperial awards, until the Nazis came along (and some wore Nazis awards). Is this a correct assumption? Thanks Captain Albert

[Paul C]

To my understanding from discussion with Rick Research an officer worn what he was awarded during Imperial times. If he reached 25 years of service during Weimar time he did not receive any long service award because there was not one to be awarded. The Third Reich long service awards were established in 1936 and officers converted their Imperial LS awards to Third Reich.

[army historian]

To my understanding from discussion with Rick Research an officer worn what he was awarded during Imperial times. If he reached 25 years of service during Weimar time he did not receive any long service award because there was not one to be awarded. The Third Reich long service awards were established in 1936 and officers converted their Imperial LS awards to Third Reich.

Thanks, Paul. That makes sense, but why so many 25 year crosses without 1897 Centennial medals? Did War time service count double (like retirement)? Cheers Captain Albert

Edited January 5, 2011 by army historian

[Daniel Krause]

yes. War time, Colonial time and Sea time for the Navy counted double for Imperial Long Service awards.

Greetings

Daniel

[army historian]

yes. War time, Colonial time and Sea time for the Navy counted double for Imperial Long Service awards.

Greetings

Daniel

Wow, I did not know Colonial and Sea time counted double. That really explains a lot. Thanks very much Captain Albert :cheers:

[Ulsterman]

To my understanding from discussion with Rick Research an officer worn what he was awarded during Imperial times. If he reached 25 years of service during Weimar time he did not receive any long service award because there was not one to be awarded. The Third Reich long service awards were established in 1936 and officers converted their Imperial LS awards to Third Reich.

I do not think this is accurate. I am positive I have seen officers LS awards during Weimar- CERTAINLY in 1919-22.... and the older imperial medals were used.

[army historian]

I do not think this is accurate. I am positive I have seen officers LS awards during Weimar- CERTAINLY in 1919-22.... and the older imperial medals were used.

Thanks Ulsterman, That is what I thought. I guess some of it might depend on the recipient pushing a little. I have a group where the man served 1901 to 1914, prisoner of War 1914-1918, and reentered service 1918 to 1932. He served twice in East Asia Squadron (1903-1905, and 1913-1914). he also served 6 months in German East Africa 1905-1906, medal). He had a lot of Sea time probably at least over 6 years. The 1928 rangslist only lists him as having an Officer's 15 year service Cross? What do you thinks? Thanks Captain Albert

[Ulsterman]

Thanks Ulsterman, That is what I thought. I guess some of it might depend on the recipient pushing a little. I have a group where the man served 1901 to 1914, prisoner of War 1914-1918, and reentered service 1918 to 1932. He served twice in East Asia Squadron (1903-1905, and 1913-1914). he also served 6 months in German East Africa 1905-1906, medal). He had a lot of Sea time probably at least over 6 years. The 1928 rangslist only lists him as having an Officer's 15 year service Cross? What do you thinks? Thanks Captain Albert

was he an officer?

[army historian]

was he an offcier?

Yes, He was an Officer from 1901 (Sea Cadet), 1902 midshipman, 1904 Lieutenant and on to retired as (Honorary) Rear Admiral 1932. Recalled in 1941 - retired again Dec 1944 as Rear Admiral z.V. Thanks again Captain Albert

[Ulsterman]

well- I think the key is the officer-grade Wurttemberg orders. There were only @ 2,200 MMO awards in WW1 and @5,100 Freidrich orders 2nd class....which were awarded to Lieutenants. What this means is that this represents the bar of a very brave jr. officer who lived until 1935 at least. My guess is that the replaced medal was the obnoxious/illegal swastika- state LS medal and that this was the bar of a Lt. dR (Pion.) or ( adept) Arzt dR/L who never got a military LS medal, because they were a war volunteer type and got a DR commission.

I tend to think of things in terms of odds: to my way of thinking I think it's 3:1 that the replaced medal was the state LS medal, followed by 10:1 RAD LS medal and 15:1 an imperial LS medal (which happened-but is rather unusual).

I have partial lists of the MMO and just at looking through the list quickly- it seems that at least 20% of the names i have were KIA, so if we ever get a database going and can cross tab for additional awards/death/FO-MMO combo, I reckon we could narrow the list of names that bar could have belonged to-...... to about 500 names or so.