Soviet Advice for a novice?

[imccrack]

Hey all, I feel like I am intruding in a tight community to ask a stupid question, but here it goes anyways. I am deployed with the US forces in Afghanistan right now and the locals are selling what they claim are old Soviet belts from the occupation. I want to buy a bunch for good friends who will appreciate the history they have, but I am not completely convinced they are genuine. How does one tell if a patina is real? I would really like to provide an actual picture but we aren't allowed to load anything on these computers. Can I safely assume that there are enough of those mass-produced star soviet belts out there that a scratched up and rusty belt is likely to be real? I am well aware that much of the crap for sale over here is from China and I only want to pay 25 bucks for these things if they are real.

Most of them look like the top buckle in the pasted image below, except they are scratched and rusty and have a beautiful looking patina. Some of them look like the gold one at the bottom, but are also scratched up. Does anyone know what the difference is between the muted green ones and the gold ones?

Any help is appreciated! if pictures will help a whole lot, perhaps I can find a way to sneak some on, let me know!

- Isaac

[Bob]

Not an expert on soviet belts but i'd expect them to be genuine. Just too many of them produced to make faking it worthwhile. 25 USD seems a bit expensive to me though, but still it's a good story to tell: soviet belt bought in Afhanistan.

If you buy a handful rather than spending loads of money on it, downside risk really isn't that high.

By the way, how safe is it in Kabul nowadays for foreigners? I've been approached for a job there. A few years ago I was also approached for a job, didn't get it and the guy who did get it got shot in the head in a traffic jam, then they came back to me (but my salary demands had increased too much) and now they're back with me again. Just curious whether it's worth an adventure or whether it's russian roulette.

[imccrack]

Not an expert on soviet belts but i'd expect them to be genuine. Just too many of them produced to make faking it worthwhile. 25 USD seems a bit expensive to me though, but still it's a good story to tell: soviet belt bought in Afhanistan.

If you buy a handful rather than spending loads of money on it, downside risk really isn't that high.

By the way, how safe is it in Kabul nowadays for foreigners? I've been approached for a job there. A few years ago I was also approached for a job, didn't get it and the guy who did get it got shot in the head in a traffic jam, then they came back to me (but my salary demands had increased too much) and now they're back with me again. Just curious whether it's worth an adventure or whether it's russian roulette.

Thx for the reply Bob, I suspect that you are right and that they are too abundant to be so elaborately faked. 25 USD seems expensive to me too, but I think I can get them cheaper in a different location.

I wish I had some credible information for you on Kabul, but unfortunately I dont have any idea because I have not been near that area. I will keep my eyes open for salty contractors and see if I can squeeze any info out of them. If Kabul has followed the same trend as other cities in the country though, it is just as dangerous if not more so than a few years ago. Is the job in the city or on the US base? Personally, there is no way I would take a job outside the wire in this country right now. Anywhere.

[Bob]

job isn't on the base, but i think you answered my question sufficiently :unsure:

[IrishGunner]

First, you are not intruding at all - all of us are willing and happy to help.

Anything can - and is frequently - faked. There are so many of these buckles/belts on the internet for sale that my instincts say there must be a lot of "reproductions" or "copies". I wouldn't think there would be a huge market for them in Afghanistan, but then again, if ISAF soliders are willing to pay $25 for one, then I'd be willing to bet some enterprising person has carted a trunk load (donkey load?) of these copies into the country to pawn off on the gringos. Of course, there may be many left over from the Soviet occupation, but realistically one has to question just how many that could be genuinely from that period and were worn my Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan. Did Afghans really hold on to large quantities? Again, my instincts suggest that isn't too likely. Of course, this is just speculation on my part; however, I'd be a bit wary of saying the majority of these pieces are truly from the Soviet occupation and many are probably "imported" - a lot of those imports are probably genuine, but some could be later copies. Although, you could say one of these is from the '80s and you obtained it in Afghanistan, it is unlikely in my opinion that a Soviet soldier actually wore it in Afghanistan.

What does all that mean - $25 is too much in my opinion for a piece that I am certain is genuine. Of course, you get to say that it came from Afghanistan, which is a novelty; however, at best, I'd pay $10 for a buckle and belt that I was reasonably sure is genuine. I just paid less than that for a buckle/belt that is dated 1978 and I'm certain is genuine. If you can find belts with date stamps - the year will be normal numbers although any words will be in Cyrillic - and the buckle isn't too scratched-up, I'd say a max of $10 would be okay.

The difference between a shiny buckle and a subdued buckle - is exactly as you'd expect for the US military; one is garrison and the other for the field uniforms.

Oh, and please don't try to "sneak" any photos onto a government computer; trying to figure out the quality of a "souvenir" isn't worth your career.

Stay safe.

[Paul L Murphy]

I would be surprised if they were fakes because you can still buy originals by the bucket load in Russia. The going price for one of these in the flea markets in Moscow two years ago was about $5 to a foreigner, ie me. You still see them being worn by Russia army conscripts today, notwithstanding the fact that the symbolism on the buckle is a little outdated !

I would agree with Irish Gunner and pay a maximum of $10 for one that is in good condition and dated. I suspect they are probably still being made since they are definiately still being used by the Russian army.

:cheers:

[imccrack]

Thank you for the replies Gunner and Murphy!

The difference between the shiny and subdued makes sense Gunner, I was thinking one was for officers and one was for enlisted, but it makes more sense that one is for dress uniforms and the other for combat uniforms.

So they are probably real, but its doubtful that they were acually worn or even found in Afghanistan, and I shouldnt pay over ten dollars for them. Sounds good! I'll check out the belts for dates too, good advice

Thank you for your help gentlemen, I have a feeling I am just getting started with this, how fun!

[army historian]

Gunner and Murphy are very correct - at worst they are probably leftover soviet items from Russia (the quality is a factor) copies would not be well made (especially from China). Again $10.00 sounds about right. You must remember that after WW2 the German jewelers turned out a lot of WW2 Iron Crosses (all levels) for sale to the GI's, today these are almost impossible to tell from original WW2 production. Cheers Captain Albert

[bullseye]

Reviving a bit of an old thread.

The belts all look legitimate with the typical synthetic leather used.

Note the middle belt with canvas and plain steel buckle. These were specifically used by construction troops who were never trained for combat and weren't considered of very quality, typically alot of the construction troops would be issued poorer quality uniforms and equipment and were often made up largely of central asian conscripts, kazakh, uzbek, etc.

Chris