Mervyn Mitton Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I recently showed - British Wars - some early photos from West Africa. Amongst these was the photo shown here - we know his identity, it is written on the back - however, the question remains. What did he do and what uniform is he wearing ? To me it could be a British Colonial style from the 2nd. Boer War (1899-1902). Can anyone help ?
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 VON LILIENSTEIN - German Legionaires of 1857 > Carl Graf VON LILIENSTEIN assigned to the Berlin district, E. Cape. The > group leader was Captain Count Carl Arthur VON LILIENSTEIN (BROTHERS? > PERHAPS?). puts a bit of south african context to it....
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Family: Marriage: 6 JAN 1862 in Colesberg Spouse: Von Lilienstein, Ida Carolina Johanna Gender: Female Parents: Father: Von Lilienstein, Carl Arthur Children: Green, Henry Aitchison Green, Frank Jordan Home Green, Ida Margaret Catherine Green, Alice Maud Caroline Birth : 11 AUG 1867 Colesberg Death : JUN 1870 Colesberg Gender: Female Green, Arthur von Lilienstein Kisch Green, Percy Birth : 1871 Death : 5 JAN 1873 Gender: MaleGreen, Alice Maud Green, Edith Susanna Green, Winifred Florence
Mervyn Mitton Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 Chris - that's amazing info. Only one query - I read it as Rilienstein - R rather then an L. What do others think on that letter ?
coldstream Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Mervyn Just my observation but the capital 'R' at the beginning of the name Ronald looks different in style to what Chris has seen as the capital 'L' of the surname. Best regards Simon
Mervyn Mitton Posted January 20, 2011 Author Posted January 20, 2011 You're right, Simon. Chris has turned up wonderful info. on a S.A. resident - and the brother of a Count ! In the UK that would be an Earl.
Arthur R Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Mervyn, Some more info about Arthur Green: born in Colesberg 3 Feb 1869; married Maria Louw 1906?; 5 children; died 27 Apr 1918. Father was Henry Green, British Resident in the Orange River Sovereignty (later Orange Free State), who married Count Carl von Lilienstein's daughter Ida. Henry has an entry in Wikipedia, also on a Green family website: Sources: http://archiver.root...6-01/1137483434 http://en.wikipedia....ish_Resident%29 http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/2008/01/19/found-ida-carolina-von-lilienstein-wife-of-henry-green/ The question now is : what was his military unit? The photo shows two pips on each shoulder which could mean captain (up to 1902) or lieutenant (after 1902), but nary a sign of a unit badge. A town guard perhaps?
Mervyn Mitton Posted January 21, 2011 Author Posted January 21, 2011 Fascinating history Arthur - and links to an important German family. I note that one name includes the word Graf. I always understood that stood for a Duke in German ? Perhaps they have a family link to one ? You rightly point out that the mystery is whose uniform is he wearing ? Only the buttons might give a hint - but, even on enlargement I can't make out any details ?
Arthur R Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I note that one name includes the word Graf. I always understood that stood for a Duke in German ? Perhaps they have a family link to one ? Mervyn, 'Graf' is German for 'count' (or 'earl' in UK terminology). 'Duke' is 'Herzog'. The German system is somewhat different from the UK system, in that whereas in the UK only the current head of the family bears the title, in Germany all members share the title. I hadn't thought about the buttons. Enlarged to 200%, one of them looks vaguely like the Cape Colony coat of arms, which would have been a general service pattern, so no pointer to a specific unit there. The Cape Archives online catalogue yields nothing for him, but his name may perhaps lie buried in a nominal roll somewhere. Given that Colesberg is a long way from any town that had a volunteer corps in those days, but is very close to the OFS border, a local town guard-type unit might be a possibility.
Mike Dwyer Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Fascinating history Arthur - and links to an important German family. I note that one name includes the word Graf. I always understood that stood for a Duke in German ? Perhaps they have a family link to one ? You rightly point out that the mystery is whose uniform is he wearing ? Only the buttons might give a hint - but, even on enlargement I can't make out any details ? Mervyn, Graf is the German equivalent of Count, a duke is a Herzog.
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