Common sense ! Or why are there so many PlMs on ebay ?

[Luftmensch]

Frankly, I'd rather be here:

Jeepers, Stogie, I had to wipe away a tear! You turning Buddhist on us? We can still send you close-up front `n' backs at the beach on your wireless laptop. I hear the Dalai Lama is fascinated by the world wars. You could start him collecting and he could give you the Kalachakra initiation....you would have that going for you!

[Stogieman]

Ahhhh, my son, the path to Enlightenment & Nirvana is not an easy one to tread....... and crossing that bridge to get to this cozy little beach is an absolutely-freakin'-horrific nightmare...... Hence the vicious rumor that Der Zigarrmann can only be seen traveling in the wee hours of the morning! ;>)

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah, idyllic beaches warmed to the glow of a setting tropical sun!

Or-- is it?

Hsst! There be reasons why he is the Evil Twin, arrrrrr.

For he finances his collecting by

moon-spending with the other Gentlemen Of The Coast!

[attachmentid=22451]

Arrr, tis mainy a cairgo and its unsuspectin carew's gone haird ashore thar where Lovecraft wrote of "The Dunwich Horror," arrr.

[attachmentid=22453]

[Luftmensch]

he finances his collecting by moon-spending with the other Gentlemen Of The Coast!

Not bad, Rick, but now that your Zen Twin is hinting at passing the baton, I nominate this, my favorite beach, LABOE, on the North Sea, for him to retire to.

It boasts one U-Boat.....

Lots of German nude bathers (that's the Ehrendenkmal in the background).....

What, Rick? Extreme close-up back and front?

[Luftmensch]

Actually, while I was there, the Germans sat in these wicker contraptions that sealed them off on three sides.

But that might be good for you, Stogie! No German babes running up and bothering you in your meditations, asking you to inspect their crown wells!!!

[Les]

But that might be good for you, Stogie! No German babes running up and bothering you in your meditations, asking you to inspect their crown wells!!!

Heavens forbide they ask he check out their "weep holes" or "gas vents"......

Edited January 12, 2006 by Les

[coastie]

Interesting Degression

A lot of things I would like to say but much have been said. So here is my two bits.

Stogieman - Don't lose heart, there are people (like me) who appreciate your knowledge, the ones who don't - The Hell with them. These are the ones who cannot accept the fact they are ignorant and self centered. They also think that you are trying to screw them by telling them they have a fake and you are going to then try to buy it at a cheap price.

Also those who are going to reside in the Eight level of Hell (according to Dante) the swindlers who bilk the unsuspecting by selling repros as original.

I have learned so much and still know very little about what I collect. Forums such as this helped me find the information either by direct contact with authors and other collectors, directing me to source books and web sites and so on. If it hadn't been for the Internet I would have probably given up a long time ago.

Now as for the PLM's It took me a while to do the math and come to the conclusion that there "ain't a whole lot out there to be had". People are of the impression that every Prussian/German officer got one during the Great War so like Iron Crosses one should be able to pick up one for a couple of grand. Of course there are the ones who think that PLM on ebay is an original and it's worth the gamble.

Maybe, and this is a very broad assumption here, that people are willing to shell out a grand or two for a good repro because they know a real one is impossible, but what they don't know and this is the killer is that there are a whole lot of them out there to be had for a song. I got a 60's repro like the one featured in Prussian Blue and got it for a very cheap price. I am happy as a clam.

Edited January 12, 2006 by coastie

[Ramblinfarms]

I can sell ya the original godet PLM awarded to George Peppard in the Movie. Or maybe I should just sell it on EBay.

[Les]

I can sell ya the original godet PLM awarded to George Peppard in the Movie. Or maybe I should just sell it on EBay.

Now that you mention it, back when the world was young and that movie was being made, there were stories that George Peppard wanted various items/props from the movie production. One story claimed he wanted (but whether he actually got it or not...don't know) one of the airplanes used in the movie, the PlM he wore (perhaps a S&L copy?) and so on.

I suspect that even if the medal Peppard and those of the other actors wearing those blue thingies around their necks, were cheap copies, if they could be proven to have been worn in the movie, there would be a definite market among the movie (and militaria?) collector crowd. For example, in Saving Private Ryan, Tom Hanks had five helmets that he wore during the movie. The one used by him in the famous beach landing scene sold for...FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!!!!!... (I know who bought it, and where it is) six years ago (2000).

Now, imagine what a cheap copy (or even not so cheap copy) of a "Blue Max" worn by Peppard would sell for to some of the "sindloesen" types that inhabit the world.

So fella, you say you have how many copies of that "blue thing" to sell on ebay? java script:emoticon('', 'smid_18') java script:emoticon('', 'smid_25') java script:emoticon('', 'smid_27')

Les

[Stogieman]

Yes, I agree there's a market for the repros. But the cheap $200 ones should be "good-enough"... S&L makes passable ones for this still. There's a guy in the UK that will make them in precious metals, varying prices... Even the Rothe fakes if mint and in the case (I always loved those JGuS marked PLM's in Austrian "coffin cases") ;>) The best Rothe fakes have brought 1-1.2K USD even when sold as copies..... but the quality of them is beyond the common eBay fakes.

Bottom line, this isn't that hard if you really study the 3 WW1 variants. I have never seen a single attempt to fake a pre-1913 cross...... not saying it hasn't been done, just saying I have not seen them offered via the usual outlets on-line in the past 8-10 years.

[Ramblinfarms]

Nah, I'm just joking. I don't even have a bad fake PLM. Frankly, they scare me to death as RKs do now. so many contoversies and fakes swirl around. Dropping 5 to 10 grand on a potential "jewler copy" is enough to make me just be happy with Privatera's Book.

BTW, are there any guidelines as to the miniatures? There is one on E Stand right now for about 6 bills, and Manions has a stickpin PLM in the auction. What is accepted and not accepted as far as the minis go?

[W McSwiggan]

2? from a non-collector. My interest is history and the men behind it.

As I?ve delved into the complexities of Imperial German orders and decorations as a tool for gaining more insight in this era, I am struck by the nature of the ?greats? in this arena.

In my opinion, they are not properly characterized as motivated to ?possess? or the value of the items in their care.

They are very interested in identifying and ?returning to life? the wearers of these things. They have invested far more than money ? they have spent years learning about the objects of their interest. Not just values and dimensions but history.

Mostly though, I must say that it is their generosity in sharing their knowledge that sets them apart. Their willingness to share hard gained information with newcomers such as myself speaks volumes to their love of this topic. Thank you for this gift ? especially my friend Rick Research.

[joe campbell]

to the torchbearers mentioned in the last post by mr.

mcswiggan!!!!

your legacy is the new blood who have been materially

affected not by the size/quality of your collections, but

by the generosity of your spirit and intellect. don't get

me wrong: i'm sure there are some wonderful pieces

there. but i've learned that these pieces are like a

swimming pool without water for you if you are unable

to spread the proverbial wealth.

the intense anger i felt on finding that too many pieces

i had were fake has long ago been replaced by the

truly good feeling that there are those out there who

DO WHATEVER IT IS YOU DO!

my heartfelt thanks!

joe

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

Rick, I'm not trying to make a point today of disagreeing with you just to argue, but I got a beauty on eBay:

http://www.vonetzel.com/award8.htm

[Stogieman]

Good Morning Brian! I have never stated that one cannot find a real piece on eBay, or any other auction house. My discussion was predicated upon the never-ending supply of "authentic", "vintage" and "jeweler copy" PLMs that are available on a weekly basis and routinely fetch between 1-5K USD. Every soldier in the entire Imperial German Army could/should have one hanging around his neck for this to be true...........

Now, which piece on your website did you get off eBay? My understanding was these were all family pieces??

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

I'm goofing with you. I have never seen a real PlM on eBay. Never. Not once.

[Les]

I'm goofing with you. I have never seen a real PlM on eBay. Never. Not once.

This one isn't wartime. Andreas S-I has looked at it in person and said it's a -real- 1920's piece. A inter-wars piece isn't wartime, but this is about as good as it gets for ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Godet-Pour-Le-Merite-PL...1QQcmdZViewItem

Les

[Stogieman]

Yes, and somebody made him a fast offer and he took it. Which was foolish as I'm sure the bids would have gone mush higher than whatever under the table offer he took.