Schießplatzmeister Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Hello again:Thanks Dave and Rick for your observations regarding the HHO. I don't doubt the originality of the HHO piece at all as it is well made. I think that putting all of our ideas together, it would seem to date from perhaps 1917 into the 1930's. I could understand silver-gilt HHO badges without swords being made in 1916 for potential issue (with all of the gold badges in stock being smelted). Then, when the number of awards of HHO badges with swords started to exponentially increase in 1917, I could understand Godet using-up their stock of silver-gilt HHO badges w/o swords. I could also understand the expediency of using rivets.I appologize for the tangential diatribe!Now back to the original question/answer regarding the bar! (I unfortunately don't have the answer).Thanks,Schie?platzmeister
Stogieman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Listen, if you guys can't figure this out soon, Rick Research is going to step in and embarass all of us a second time!(said in my BEST Monty Python Frainch-type accent)
Ulsterman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) The Friedrich Order 2nd class on this bar was only to Lts., the 1st class would be to Hauptmans and acting Majors. The fact that this man "had" an REO before the war would indicate he was at least a Hauptman in 1914. Also-glaringly-its' missing the inferior Crown Order. He "was" in uniform too in 1897 by the Centennial medal-even as an Einjahrer he would have had 16 years in by August, 1914-a bit long for an Oberlt. (?). Edited January 13, 2006 by Ulsterman
Stogieman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 And that's the facts, Jack.The presence of these 2 awards makes this combination impossible. If it had a W?rttemberg Friedrich RK1wX, it becomes a possible combination but then (IMO) the other factors come into play.-straight bottom Godet mount-non-typical Godet backing material-non-typical godet edge trimming of said backing material-no evidence W?rttemberg piece was removed/replacedUlsterman wins 20% off any medal bar in my January Medal Bar Sales Thread!Steve K. & webr55 win a consolation prize of 10% off any medal bar in my January Medal Bar Sales Thread!
Ulsterman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Thank you very much; very sportsmanlike of you Stogieman.However, I rarely collect bars this Millenium; perchance have you any odd photos laying about your manor?
Josef Rietveld Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 @ulsterman, congratulations i was waiting whole day for the solution of this mystery. i'am collecting orders and decorations and i didn't see it.Respecthaynau
Guest Rick Research Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Contrast the "I was a Captain-at-least-before-the-war and look at me now Ma I'm a Lieutenant" Red Eagle 4/WF3bX FREAK bar with the Bavarian one:That might seem freaky at first glance, since it has a Military Merit Cross 1st Class for warrant officers with a Saxon Albert-Knight 2nd X for Lieutenants BUT Bavaria insulted Beamten, including those who held Reserve OFFICER ranks on the side, by inexplicably, petulantly downgrading what they got in WW1 to the Cross rather than Order awards of Bavaria's home award. OK, that might be a bit too specialist to realize, but that OTHER bar...the fact that every single ribbon is flawless, with no sign whatsoever of meddling and swapping out any awards-- particularly the Impossible Two Together (remember, the OTHER awards asert that this guy was a continuous serving regular officer, not some oddball reservist with higher civil service status than military rank-- not with that XXV!), leads me to believe that this medal bar was MADE this way-- and that is absolutely impossible for an original medal bar to any real living person. And lest the seller or a buyer think a "rough repair" by tugging one or the other out to establish an "alibi" will miraculously "legitimize" this down the road--none of us now living will EVER forget this freakish two pinned non-Godet mounting. Ever. 2003 was The Year Of The Frankenstein Medal Bar. Time after time after time we saw ABSURD combinations that were--literally--too big to have worn, festooned with impossible awards: Gefreiters with MORE awards than the Red Baron being the "norm." The flat bottomed style, while original and legitimate and REAL has been much damaged by having this flood, this tidal wave of brand new garbage appear, was NOT common. The sheer volume of frauds has made even the REAL flat bottoms subject to deep scrutiny and suspicion.But every medal bar "reads" like a book about its wearer's life and career. If the "chapters" each of the awards tells do not make sense-- as in the Impossibly Demoted Regular Officer's Flat Bottom-- there is indeed a reason for that:those bars are frauds.
Sal Williams Posted January 13, 2006 Author Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) Same seller fellers Edited January 13, 2006 by Sal Williams
Steve K. Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Hey, You put 'fun' in my 'education'.... No, you got 'eduction' on my 'fun'..... Two great tastes... (wait, that doesn't work!)..... I would like to use my discount on a bar that says 'SOLD'. How do I do that?
Stogieman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Sal... not the same seller. The ribbon bar lives in California with Chris H. I sold it to him. Nice example of how Bavaria sleighted the Beamter again though.
Guest Rick Research Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Sal: Ah yes, Georg K?stner! That's my scan, BTW, when it was in Schloss Rickenstein visiting. We went through his life story at a previous place which shall ne'er be mentioned. Thanks for jogging my mind-- that's one for any updated and improved Ribbon Bar work (hint hint).Love those Schickle eagles![attachmentid=22660]
notned Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Wow! my education is getting better all the time! I had no idea! ( but then i am a baby when it comes to this hobby!)Thanks Gents Paul
HeikoGrusdat Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 yes it was my mistake,too.... I concentrated on the RAO far right and forgot Friedrich on the left... thank you very much for the same as always "LEARNING, LEARNING, LEARNING!!!!!"
Sal Williams Posted January 14, 2006 Author Posted January 14, 2006 OOOOPPPPS! I don't know why or how I got that confused with the other bar????? Sorry to both Rickys!
Guest Rick Research Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Don't you actually HAVE a BMVK1XmKr, Sal? I thought you got one a couple of years ago from Evil Ricky...an early manifestation of your "Goldfinger Syndrome!"
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