EK 1914 EKII Ribbon: The Bar vs The Buttonhole

[ph0ebus]

Hi all,

Apologies if this is a basic question, and I was unable to locate a previous thread on this question using the search feature. My question relates to two family pictures I have, one of my grandfather (Emanuel) and another of his brother (Simon). Both were awarded the EKII, but while my grandfather wears his EKII ribbon through his buttonhole, his brother wears it on a ribbon bar on his left breast. My grandfather was with Feldartillerie Regiment Nr. 43, and his brother was with Reserve Feldartillerie Regiment Nr 5, though I am not 100% certain Simon was still with RFAR5 at the time the photo was taken. Why would two presumably Prussian FAR regiments wear the EKII ribbon two different ways?

Thanks,

-Daniel

[Robin Lumsden]

There was an option to wear war decoration ribbons from the buttonhole.

Just an option .................

Peacetime awards could not be worn from the buttonhole.

Any ribbon worn from the buttonhole could not also be worn on the bar at the same time.

That's it in a nutshell.

[Chris Boonzaier]

There must be something in writing about this.

[Hugh]

Hi all,

Apologies if this is a basic question, and I was unable to locate a previous thread on this question using the search feature. My question relates to two family pictures I have, one of my grandfather (Emanuel) and another of his brother (Simon). Both were awarded the EKII, but while my grandfather wears his EKII ribbon through his buttonhole, his brother wears it on a ribbon bar on his left breast. My grandfather was with Feldartillerie Regiment Nr. 43, and his brother was with Reserve Feldartillerie Regiment Nr 5, though I am not 100% certain Simon was still with RFAR5 at the time the photo was taken. Why would two presumably Prussian FAR regiments wear the EKII ribbon two different ways?

Thanks,

-Daniel

Can you post the pictures?

H

[ph0ebus]

Hi Hugh, all...

Thanks for the clarification. I am away from my computer at present but will post photos as soon as I have access.

Thanks,

Daniel

[Chris Boonzaier]

Lets not forget, later tunics did not have the button holes...

[Chip]

Lets not forget, later tunics did not have the button holes...

True, but in many cases they sewed the ribbons right where the button hole would have been anyway.

Chip

[ostprussenmann_new]

True, but in many cases they sewed the ribbons right where the button hole would have been anyway.

Chip

This is agood question. I have alway's wondered this about the EKII myself

[Robin Lumsden]

There must be something in writing about this.

There is.

Courtesy of SS-Standartenfuehrer Dr. Doehle.

[Chip]

Robin, please elaborate!

Thanks,

Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

True, but in many cases they sewed the ribbons right where the button hole would have been anyway.

Chip

Hi without a doubt done and seen in many photos, but proportionally, in the days of tunics with buttons just about everyone was wearing them in the buttonhole... later photos with the Bluse and its hidden buttons there are guys who sew them on where the buttonhole should be, but there are many more with the ribbon on the chest.

I think it was just a question of praticality at that stage.

Best

Chris

[ostprussenmann_new]

Hi without a doubt done and seen in many photos, but proportionally, in the days of tunics with buttons just about everyone was wearing them in the buttonhole... later photos with the Bluse and its hidden buttons there are guys who sew them on where the buttonhole should be, but there are many more with the ribbon on the chest.

I think it was just a question of praticality at that stage.

Best

Chris

If you look at my posting about Prussian Infantry Regiment Nr. 18 (von Grolman), there is a picture of my Great Great Uncle in a hidden button blouse with his EKII sewn onto the tunic.

ostprussenmann

[ph0ebus]

Hi all,

Sorry for the delay in posting these....got caught up in home renovations that took longer than expected. here's my grandfather with EKII ribbon in his buttonhole (circa May 1917):

And here is his brother Simon with his EKII ribbon on a ribbon bar (undated, but presumably late war):

Of course, Simon is wearing the tunic sans buttonholes, which would make the wearing of the bar more sensible, but as I am new to all this, and was not sure if there was some other significance above and beyond the practicality of it.

Thanks again,

Daniel

Edited March 27, 2011 by ph0ebus

[ostprussenmann_new]

Here is my Great Great Uncle Mathias. He was in Prussian Infantry Regiment Nr. 18 (von Grolman)

[Odulf]

Perhaps this most interesting question can be answered by looking at early German portraits, and asking the question: When did the custom of wearing ribbons instead of full medals became customary?

Going through my photo collection I have noticed that the earliest photos show only (high ranking) officers wearing Orders in their button holes. During and shortly after the Franco-German War of 1870-71 it looks like the first ribbons without medals are worn on the chest. Thus no medal ribbons in button holes, only full size decorations without the matching ribbons. Still, during the Franco-German War the EK2 is worn from the button hole (permanently on the kleinen Dienstanzug?). During the Great War I see the first ribbons without medals appear in button holes, also in combination ribbons, combining more ribbons into one.

Amongst the first ribbons to be permanently worn in the button hole is the Rettungsmedaille am Bande.

Some photos from my collection below.

Portrait of: August Wittenstein, Inf.Rgt. Nr.55 (dated Juli 1871)

Undated, photographer Vinmer, St.Quentin (Aisne) in France

Fritz von Bock und Polach (undated), photographer Ch.Boquet, Bar le Duc

Unidentified Lieutenant of the Reserve with ribbon bar

Beautifull incoloured photo, dated 19.1.1892 (???)

[Glenn R]

What an excellent selection of photos. Great to see member's ancestors posted here.