stukapilot Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 Gentlemen! What do you think about this MVK? How rare it could be on that ribbon? It seems there were no swords ever.
avadski Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 Hello, in my opinion it once used to be 3rd class with swords made by Weiss. Seems the swords were removed and the hole worked with a file to look like the swords never been there.
saschaw Posted April 30, 2011 Posted April 30, 2011 24 awarded, from what I know. But I have severe doubts this should be one of them.
Wild Card Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 Hello stukapilot, I am sorry, but I think that you will find that your cross at one time had swords. Regards, Wild Card
stukapilot Posted May 1, 2011 Author Posted May 1, 2011 Thank you for opinions! Can't find the evidence of the swords being there. The ribbon looks original. I think that much more than 24 were produced.
saschaw Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 I think that much more than 24 were produced. Possibly, who knows. But I doubt any were made by Weiss. ;)
avadski Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Hello, my understanding was that crosses without swords by Leser should only be early types. These early types had different medallion on the back and different hinge. But that's only how I see that. Unfortunately I don't have any example and I doubt anyone here does...remember the number of awards :(
Wild Card Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) Gentlemen, I cannot claim any expertise with regard to MVK’s, but I find this (post #10) cross to be intriguing and very much look forward to the expert’s opinions. I would also like take this opportunity to offer a word of caution. While I appreciate the importance of extremely low award figures, they do not automatically preclude the existence of surviving pieces. Regards, Wild Card Edited August 21, 2011 by Wild Card
Chris Boonzaier Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 I would also like take this opportunity to offer a word of caution. While I appreciate the importance of extremely low award figures, they do not automatically preclude the existence of surviving pieces. Indeed, Without being able to comment on the badges, I think from a practicle point of view, once you have the dies ct, the machine set up and the raw material ready.... it is onlikely that they made things in batches of 10. I wonder what the minimum produktion run was ? For non enamel awards maybe a couple of hundred? Then as you get to awards with a lot of hand work (Enamel etc) mabe the same, but with less of them being "finished", more "stored parts" which could be finished as needed? Best Chris
avadski Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Indeed, Without being able to comment on the badges, I think from a practicle point of view, once you have the dies ct, the machine set up and the raw material ready.... it is onlikely that they made things in batches of 10. I wonder what the minimum produktion run was ? For non enamel awards maybe a couple of hundred? Then as you get to awards with a lot of hand work (Enamel etc) mabe the same, but with less of them being "finished", more "stored parts" which could be finished as needed? Best Chris Good point Chris. But remember that in case of Jacob Leser the swords were only attached with bolt and nut. Only thing you need to do is to unscrew them and you have a perfect non combattant cross without any traces of swords being ever there. Sometimes the swords leave a traces of oxidation on the cross, these are however not visible on the one pictured. My point with the early production types was that crosses without swords were only made up to 1915. At that time Leser produced their first model with different medallion and hinge. I cannot show an example of an early production as I'm far far away from my collection at the moment. Cross that we can see on the pictures above is the latest production made roughly from mid 1915 onwards.
Chris Boonzaier Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Hi, I cede all points about the medal to you, my remarks are exclusivley related to how many medlas would have been in a minimum production run. Best Chris
Bavaria Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Hello Indeed it´s easy to remove swords from MVKs. But there ist sometimes the possibilitiy to see some prints/scratches at the upper arm of a MVK (where the swords had been formerly fixed). You can see some examples for these scratches at attached picture. I´ve marked them with a red arrow. You can also see a scratch at the MVK at post nr. 10. The MVK at Post nr. 1-4 is a late Weiss (e.g. design of the lion). It´s a good example, that not all MVK with removed swords shows these scratches. But beware: even swords from early Leser can be removed! Kind regards Rudi
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