Ebay: if at first you don't succeed.....

[Les]

Hey everyone! The seller said he's relisting this one. Apparently the bidder backed out or did the seller use a shill who didn't drive the price up high enough?

http://cgi.ebay.com/German-Pour-Le-Merite-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Les

[Biro]

The pics aren't showing in that ebay auction - maybe it's me....

If anyone else can see them, maybe they can post them here direct.

M

[Stogieman]

Hi Marshall, lets try this:

[Stogieman]

And the reverse.

[Stogieman]

It's exceptionally well done but Wagner eagle heads are different.

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

Tell me that's not convincing. Walking down the hallway in a dome packed with a thousand dealers selling bean babies and multi colored glass vases, that would catch my attention and cause me to pause and take a closer look.

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

It's exceptionally well done but Wagner eagle heads are different.

But yes Rick, the moment you picked it up and saw the 'W' you'd have to just laugh and look at the guy selling it and remember his face.

[Ulsterman]

It is well done and gives me pause.

Has anyone ever seen a copy/fake like it beforre?

[Stogieman]

And therein lies part of the problem. It is extremely well done. And the eagles come very, very close to Wagner. Closer to Friedlander. If it was marked "FR 938" I'd really be wondering.

Now. There is some debate as to whether there were subtle changes to the Wagner pieces post 1920.. But I'm not part of that study, nor part of the debate. The only ones of these that I would trust were sold by trusted folks at prices I couldn't touch.

Which is why selling these on eBay in the under 5K range has such a following. Everybody wants "a deal" ;>)

[Ulsterman]

Yes-part of the fun of the hobby.

Meanwhile, I have seen a few bits and pieces in my time that were nonconforming and from old collections and/or families. They were one offs, which is why I look a little harder at things like this. Fakers usually make a series/batch of fakes-not a unique piece. Individual jewelers in the 1920-1940s however, did do such things -and do so today with some foreign country medals.

I'm not in the market for one of these... but I like to look.

Edited January 23, 2006 by Ulsterman

[Les]

This is a copy that was made in Spain about six or seven years ago. In the past two years, this version has been appearing on ebay, and has been bringing prices well over $1000, often around $2000 and sometimes more than that. A recent one on ebay went for $3800.

Here's the obverse of one, fresh off the assembly line:

Les

[medalnet]

This new version of the famous PlM is really popular on ebay. Those surfaced a couple of years ago and were actually sold in Germany as fakes for about 500 to 1000 Euros. Certainly the best fake yet.

I was told that those pieces were ! made in Spain, but the tooling broke which explains that one can not get them anymore from the source.

I am sure most of you have the book by S.Previtera?

There is a PlM pictured that looks mighty close to the one we see so often lately. I need to scan it and post it tonight.....

Anyway, this is a fake!!!

[Les]

..and this is what they look like after they've left the place they were made, and being sold as "something" or other, real or imagined. They weren't originally sold with a case, or ribbon. These are usually added later, and these are now turning up with the area around the eagle's feet and feathers cut out or voided, spurious maker marks added, and so on.

This copy might look good at first glance, and at arms distance, but pick one up and compare it to a real one (especially side by side) and there's really no comparison.

Brian, want to do the honors and post your grandfathers again?

Les

[David Gregory]

Can these PlM copies be bought anywhere as copies and at prices below $1000?

[medalnet]

Can these PlM copies be bought anywhere as copies and at prices below $1000?

Try one of the upcoming medal fairs in Germany. Some honest dealers may still sell them as fakes for that amount of money. You will find a complete list on the BDOS e.V. web page at: www.bdos.org

[medalnet]

...actually, this gets you directly to the medal fair dates:

Medal Fair Schedule

Edited January 23, 2006 by medalnet

[Stogieman]

Yep. If you were going to grab a "display" pice. I would even choose this one over the Rothe copies. Although the Rothe ones are nice when they have the ribbon and case.