Argentina 1930s 'General En Jefe' epaulettes - help needed urgently

[achern]

Gents, I've just come across these epaulettes for sale and I have no idea what rank they are for, except that they are described as a pair of "Argentina 1930s 'General En Jefe' epaulettes".

Any information as to what they really are, the time period in which they were used, and comments about their similarity to European ranks would be greatly appreciated.

alf

[Laurence Strong]

I don't think they are Argentinian, as they seem to use the Inca sun symbol instead of pips.

The construction is very similar to these:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/52295-marshal-of-the-royal-air-force-shoulder-straps/

and these:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/52266-red-deer-antique-show-finds/

Hopefully someone has a better answer, I am looking forward to identification now that they have piqued my interest.

[achern]

Hi Lawrence, I'd have to say they are most likely Argentinian, but very early boards.

From what I have roughly found out, the early Argentinian ranks used pips very similar to those in Europe, and it was only later that they started using the Inca Sun.

On the two links you have provided (one of them was posted by myself), the shoulder straps are British and Canadian, both of the Air Force and quite different in origin and symbolism.

I'll now post a couple of other pictures substantiating these red and gold ranks as Argentinian, but I'd also love to have more information about these.

Alf

[achern]

Here are some photographs of Argentinian generals wearing similar boards, and pips:

and here is an excerpt from a book showing the various Argentinian shoulder board insignia:

No. 10 in the diagram is of particular interest.

[Laurence Strong]

Excellent, I stand corrected.

[Laurence Strong]

Hi Alf

From what I have roughly found out, the early Argentinian ranks used pips very similar to those in Europe, and it was only later that they started using the Inca Sun.

The pips definately look to be German in nature

On the two links you have provided (one of them was posted by myself), the shoulder straps are British and Canadian, both of the Air Force and quite different in origin and symbolism.

Hehehe oops I missed the connection. All I was alluding to was the construction. Not sure if it is meaninful but the little circles appear to be stitched in a similar manner. What does the reverse look like?

later

Larry

Edited January 29, 2012 by Laurence Strong

[achern]

Apparently, there is a German-Argentine connection which began with a migration from Europe to South America in the late 1800s. Later, Germany was a big player in the modernisation of the Argentine armed forces in the 1920s onward. I suppose that is the reason for the similarity in the pips.

Here are more pictures of the ranks, and the reverse:

[Bayern]

Very late but better late than never . the shoulder boards are certainly argentinians and a rather uncommon model the rank of the wearer is lieutnant general the highest of the argentinian army three pips here called suns ,red backing and gold braid of fine quality . this shoulder board type  were for use with the full dress uniform ; they are of about 1924 to 1927 later the model was changed to a german style triple gold cord interwoven shoulder boards on red backing and with the same pips And yes the argentinian army received german influence between 1896 and 1940 in many ways including weapons until the ww1 ,doctrine uniforms , organization,and so on . 

[Stuka f]

The buttons are defenetly Argentinians

cheers

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[Bayern]

Yes the buttons and the shoulder boards . they are a scarce item used by few men and during a short period of time . Ican not imagine how appeared in Singapore !! the sun used to mark the rank of officers is certainly the Inca one but for i dont know which reason between 1923 and 1946 the german type pip was used by generals with all uniforms by other officers with the gala (parade ) uniform . with the others the rounded suns . today the pips subsisted into the police forces . Cheers