German Colonial Another Colonial Bar - Good or Bad?

[army historian]

Sorry - but I wanted some opinions on this colonial bar. I am thinking very seriously of buying. Thanks in advanced.

[Naxos]

George, the pictures are just too poor to say anything.

Can you provide better photographs or scans of the KDM medal and the Spange.

[army historian]

Here Naxos - about the best (due to restrictions). Thanks George

Edited February 2, 2012 by army historian

[Naxos]

I like the KDM medal but I can not comment on the SAMOA bar since I never saw one before

[army historian]

Thanks Naxos - I haven't seen a Samoa bar either - but have seen a few colonial bars: Venezuela 1902/03 (original), Deutsch Ost Afrika 1888-89 (original), and a lot of copies. This one appears good (hard to see the pebbling behind the letters) Letters look good also. So we will see what happens. Thanks again George

[saschaw]

Doesn't look bad from the pictures!

[Ulsterman]

I would think it is good. I saw the rest of the collection and the Ethiopian stuff is superb! Whoever that was/is-they had a world class-if not THE world class colonial collection.

[Claudius]

Whoever that was/is-they had a world class-if not THE world class colonial collection.

any Tsingtau?!?

[army historian]

Thank you all this really helps. Claudius the only Tsingtau I have are groups to officer's stationed there at different times. I do have two photo albums (151 photos) of a sailor from the Scharnhorst (1909-1912 or so). Pictures from all over the Pacific, etc. Cheers George

[Claudius]

Thank you all this really helps. Claudius the only Tsingtau I have are groups to officer's stationed there at different times. I do have two photo albums (151 photos) of a sailor from the Scharnhorst (1909-1912 or so). Pictures from all over the Pacific, etc. Cheers George

Thanks George;

I'm more into the Seige of Tsingtau in 1914. Or anything from the South Seas colonies....during WWI.

[army historian]

Good luck - I thought my interest to be narrow - Imperial German naval/colonial with special interest in 1. Survivors of sinking etc., and colonial actions which were of interest to the United States. The SAMOA 1888 bar fits that real well - the US and Germany almost went t o war. I never expected to locate one. I will have to finish writing an article on the Campaign and typhoon - already started (just interested). Thanks again all - Cheers George

[Claudius]

Good luck - I thought my interest to be narrow - Imperial German naval/colonial with special interest in 1. Survivors of sinking etc., and colonial actions which were of interest to the United States. The SAMOA 1888 bar fits that real well - the US and Germany almost went t o war. I never expected to locate one. I will have to finish writing an article on the Campaign and typhoon - already started (just interested). Thanks again all - Cheers George

You sir, and I, I think would enjoy having a beer together. And sometime I would like to hear more about your collecting and what you have learned about area of interest.

I would like to read your article once you have finished it. And I would like others to read my articles I've written, if I could get a history magazine to publish them. :banger:

[army historian]

Hello Claudius - I agree - I would love to have a beer with you and discuss the collections. As for publishing, I have only done so here on the site: in the download section are a couple. I have written for the California Center for Military History (Naval Research and Study Element) - some posted on the California State Military Museum website: http://www.militarymuseum.org/USSSanDiego.html , http://www.militarymuseum.org/Ely3.html , http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/files/file/19-venezuela-blockade-190203/ , http://www.militarymuseum.org/CAOC.html , http://www.militarymuseum.org/CASM.html , http://www.militarymuseum.org/EurekaGuard.html , and many others. It is hard to get the Museum to update and sometimes to even load the articles. I have almost 200 pages on Rear Admiral Walther Koehler and his times, also about 40 documented groups (mostly US with "potted" histories). The hardest are the enlisted men - from all countries. I will be writing about Samoa 1888-89 and the typhoon for sure. I would like to see a few of your articles - why not post here? There are some online military history sites on line were you can load the articles, but no pay. Like I do with the museum. Cheers George

[Claudius]

Hello George;

Late response -but I was away for the entire weekend.

Thanks for the links, I will access them as soon as I can. Thank you for sharing your experiences and advice. You offer a lot to consider.

[army historian]

Thanks Claudius - I just got a telephone call from the dealer on this great group - it is mine and will be posted tomorrow. I can not believe my luck on this one. I will definitely write an article on Samoa and the Typhoon now. Cheers George

[army historian]

Well it arrived yesterday - I am totally blown away - this is an original issue colonial medal with an original SAMOA 1888 bar. I still can not believe my luck - and the price. Cheers George

[Claudius]

Well it arrived yesterday - I am totally blown away - this is an original issue colonial medal with an original SAMOA 1888 bar. I still can not believe my luck - and the price. Cheers George

Congratulations George!

An outstanding addition to your collection and your area of collecting. The "SAMOA 1888" is arguably the most rare of the 89 possible bars. As such, it symbolizes the very few who earned it, and the fewer in 1912 who got the medal and bar.

The kriegshilfe verdienstkreuz was created in December 1916. This gent was alive and contributing to the war effort. Even if he was only a young cadet of 18 or 19 in Samoa he still would have been his late 40ies when he put this bar together.

Very nice.

[army historian]

Thanks Claudius - my feelings exactly. Since this is a signal bar medal - I know who ever this belonged to was not on the S.M.S. Olga they were also entitled the the "Deutsch-Ostafrika 1888/89 bar. So this leaves only the S.M.S. Adler (crew of 128 - 20 died - 108 survivors), and the Eber (crew of 87 - 4 survivors) - supposedly only 2 known bars awarded to the ship (information ebay guides). After Rear Admiral Koehler's group this is my second favorite and rare piece. I think that who ever this is he left the Naval Service some time after the typhoon experience. The eye surgery went very well - now recuperating. It will be some weeks before the eye sight returns to normal. You take care, Cheers George.

[Naxos]

George, what a beautiful and rare medal-bar, congratulations my friend!

All the Best, Hardy

[army historian]

Thank you Hardy - I really appreciate your friendship and comments. Take care George

[Ulsterman]

Congratulations!!!

That was quite a collection that was sold. I wonder to whom it belonged? The French stuff was amazing too and the Ethiopian brought tears to my eyes.

[army historian]

Thanks Ulsterman - Yes I wish I knew where it came from (sent an email to dealer - for details) will see if he answers. There was an interesting tag on the back - see below I removed the price (right side) it also had a number "3238". Cheers George

Edited February 25, 2012 by army historian

[Ulsterman]

So..... 120-ish total bars awarded?

The German Naval archives are notoriously "difficult" (some say "lazy") to access, but I would bet this is the sort of thing they might have records of.

It's a great story and by a process of elimination you might be able to narrow this bar down to a couple of dozen enlisted men I'd bet.

It must date to at least 1917 given the Prussian war merit cross.

I had no idea it was so rare.

[army historian]

Ulsterman you are probably correct not many awarded. The ones to the S.M.S. Olga would be two clasp medals (clasp SAMOA 1888, and clasp DEUTSCH-OSTAFRIKA 1888/89) so that leaves S.M.S. Adler ( possible 108) and Eber (2 known). What ever this is a rare clasp. I wounder if Rick Research and friends could help? I'll try Stogieman. Cheers George

[Ulsterman]

There is a Kreigsmarine forum linked to the archives in German.

This is the sort of thing that they might help with; there must have been an award lists of those made.

I doubt Stogie or RR will be able to help with this one. Rick does officers mostly. But he'd LOVE to see it.

It would make a great JOMSA article though.