China ?East Asian ivory piece-award, laundry tag, any thoughts?

[FireMedals]

Hi,

I just bought a box of material that appears to have come from a Frenchman who served in Shanghi before WWII and in Vietnam during WWII, apparently up to the US involvment in 1964.I'm still trying to sort through it all, but this piece was attached to a display panel along with several French and VN medals, coins, etc.. It is a piece of ivory with the Chinese-style characters engraved on it, and then filled with red ink or paint. It was hanging in a prominent place on the panel with his other awards, so he was obviously proud enought of it to give it a place of honor.It's possible he had a police connection, but again, I haven't had a chance to sort everything out. It's way outside my area of experience.

Has anyone ever seen anything like this? Any help will be appreciated, and once I can figure everything out, I'll follow up with a display.

Thanks for any help.

FireMedals

[Hugh]

This appears to be one of the "Bai", from the days of the Annam / Viet Nam regime (1886 - 1946). I quote from Ed Emering's excellent site - http://www.themedalh...ench/index.html (Search under Annam)

"Although more of an insignia of rank, I have included examples of the Bai because they became elevated to a "badge of prestige". The Bai shown here are made of ivory and take their shape from the tablets borne by the Chinese mandarins. Ivory Bai were worn for regular dailyusage within the palace grounds at Hue." He shows several examples, each with different inscriptions according to the rank and office of different office-holders.

Best,

Hugh

Edited February 26, 2012 by Hugh

[hc8604]

This is not ivory. It is made out of bone.

[FireMedals]

Thanks Hugh and hc8604. I appreciate the leads. I never would have connected this with a mandarins rank insignia. Now I'll try to connect it with the rest of the "stuff" that came with it.

FireMedals

[JBFloyd]

Concur with the identification. Lots of well-made fakes in plastic, however.

[CUSSONNEAU]

Hello,

Upper characters : Hàn-lâm

(Part of Hàn-lâm- viện or "Academy office").

Down : Biên-tu (literally : to put in order and to compose).

Corresponding to a mandarin of the 7^th degree, 1^st class, attached at the "Academy office".

A classic plaque from Annam, but a rather poor calligraphy...

Authentic ?

Regards

Cuss

[No one]

Dear Gentlemen,

 

 

Yours sincerely,

no one

[No one]

Dear Gentlemen,

 

The bai (bài ngà / 牌牙) should look like this photomontage :

 

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

 

[DavidS]

No one

 

I purchased this piece 5 years ago and was advised by the seller that it was “inscribed for a Staff Member of the Hanlin Academy and Court Chamberlain”.

 

I am not able to decipher the seal characters (篆書 - zhuànshū) and confirm the stated awardee.

 

I notice that you have posted a lot of information showing seal characters and wonder if you could let me know if there is software to print these characters and maybe to translate Chinese hanzi to zhuànshū.

 

Thank you for your help and all your interesting contributions to GMIC

[No one]

Dear DavidS,

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but your Bài ngà (牌牙) is very stange (to me).

 

It's not a question of style, it's just poorly written.

 

I can figure out what are the first and last Chinese characters ( chữ Hán).

 

I tried to explain directly on your picture, if it's not clear enough, let me know.

 

 

Here is a correctly written one, you can compare with what I wrote on the right, it is the same (the "brushstrokes" are slightly different):

 

 

 

In 2018 an imitation was sold on Ebay :

 

 

 

 

In this book "The Traditional Awards Of Annam" by Sylvester & Husken, Sylvester speaks of "amulets and questionnable pieces" page 131.

It took many years but I finally found out what was "The fifth degree respected elder".

 

 

 

"The Five Venerables (The Great Mandarins) in Mother Worship" :

 

 

The Five Honored Commanders (Ngũ Vị Tôn Quan). 

 

The First Grand Commander (Quan Lớn Đệ Nhất)

 

His full title is The First Crown Prince and Princely Commander of Heaven (Đệ Nhất Thượng Thiên Hoàng Thái Tử Vương Quan)

 

The Second Grand Commander (Quan Lớn Đệ Nhị)

 

His full title is The Second Supervising Commander of Highlands (Đệ Nhị Thượng Ngàn Giám Sát). His other common title is the Supervising Commander (Quan Giám Sát).

 

The Third Grand Commander (Quan Lớn Đệ Tam)

 

His full title is The Third Crown Prince and Princely Commander of Water Palace (Đệ Tam Thoải Phủ Hoàng Thái Tử Vương Quan).

 

The Fourth Grand Commander (Quan Lớn Đệ Tứ)

 

His full title is The Fourth Imperial Commissioner of the Four Palaces (Đệ Tứ Khâm Sai Quyền Cai Tứ Phủ). His other common title is the Imperial Commissioner Commander (Quan Khâm Sai).

 

The Fifth Grand Commander (Quan Đệ Ngũ)

 

His full title is The Fifth Grand Commander of Tuần Tranh (Quan Lớn Đệ Ngũ Tuần Tranh)

 

-links :

 

Ngũ Vị Tôn Quan Năm Ông Quan Lớn - Đền Thờ- Lễ Tiệc Quan (congvientamlinh.com)

 

Ngũ Vị Tôn Quan là ai ? - Phủ Dầy Nam Định (phuday.com)

 

Ngũ Vị Tôn Quan - 5 vị Quan lớn trong Tứ Phủ - Thần thoại Việt Nam (truyenxuatichcu.com)

 

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

Edited February 21, 2023 by No one

[No one]

Dear Gentlemen,

 

After some research "chamberlains"  are called "thị vệ  侍衛" at the Vietnamese court.

 

 

Other possibilities :

 

 

 

etc... but they must have "thị / 侍".

 

Yours is "Kiểm / " which is used for "inspection / examination / etc... "

 

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

[No one]

Dear DavidS,

 

In the "Bulletin des amis du vieux Hué 13e année № 3 juillet-septembre 1926" there is a long article about the "Bài  / 牌".

They are in silver or ivory. On the obverse the name of the chamberlain and on the reverse his class. 

 

Note : I used the photo of the reverse of the Bài posted by DavidS to illustrate this topic.

 

Here are the "Bài  / 牌" of "Chambellans au Service de Sa Majesté / Thị vệ / 侍衛 " :

 

- 4th class in silver :

 

 

- 4th class in ivory :

 

 

- 5th class in ivory :

 

 

As for  the  "Bài  / 牌" with "Kiểm / "  ( from Symboles et Traditions № 181) :

 

- Hàn Lâm Viện Kiểm Thảo  / analyste officiel :

 

 

- Hàn Lâm Viện Kiểm Tịch / employé d'enregistrement :

 

 

Well, all this to say that I'm not sure your Bài is of a chamberlain or what it is, exactly, sorry.

 

Your sincerely,

No one