Luftwaffe Luftwaffe wool lined leather winter pilot coat

[Guest greglufty]

Can anyone help me identify this coat? It has the quick release seam, zipp zippers everywhere (with lightening bolt logo) no pockets but three openings, a bakelite button, and a green canvas cuff partial sleeve.

From what I can tell, its early WWII - the insignia were removed, each arm has a 4 1/2 by 3.25 " stitch outline where I think the insignia were ... and the manufacturer tag is also missing.

I'd love to know more about the coat. I was told it was taken off a captured pilot during the battle of britain by the grandfather of the man i bought it from in England. It is very heavy leather, and a very heavy coat in general. He also sold me the flyers helmet - an early seimens 101 with all the electronics, in pristine shape.

Seems neither the coat nor the flyer saw much action.

HAs anyone seen, or does any one have a coat like this>? thank you!

[John Cooper]

Hi,

I am no experten but if anything my guess is it would be a private purchase. Now the strange thing is that it looks very similar to the Winterfliegerkombi (at least the top half). As for the story well it is just that a story now way to know for sure as any collector will tell you. Now if he had a picture then that would be all the proof you need.

You may want to research the BOB and scan pictures to see if you find any similar jackets. Additionally there are a few real experts here that maybe able to provide some insight - JOS et al. ?

Regards

John

[J Temple-West]

I would agree that it?s most likely a private purchase item. The use of non regulation garments by Luftwaffe crews was not unheard of and quite a few period photos even show the wear of the favoured British leather flight jacket.

The thing I find interesting, something that I feel helps confirm its use by a member of a flight crew, are the marks left by the removal of the insignia. The measurements you've given corresponds to the measurements of the rank insignia (Doppelschwingen) worn by Officers and NCO's which were in the form of wings and stripes sewn on to a backing material and then fixed to the jacket. By no means 100% proof but a start in finding out the jackets history. The logo on the zips may help if you can find the maker and match it to the period.

All in all, I think it has a good chance of being an original wartime piece and worth the research.

Let us know how you get on.

[Guest greglufty]

Hi,

I am no experten but if anything my guess is it would be a private purchase. Now the strange thing is that it looks very similar to the Winterfliegerkombi (at least the top half). As for the story well it is just that a story now way to know for sure as any collector will tell you. Now if he had a picture then that would be all the proof you need.

You may want to research the BOB and scan pictures to see if you find any similar jackets. Additionally there are a few real experts here that maybe able to provide some insight - JOS et al. ?

Regards

John

thanks john for the info - what is the "BOB"? sorry for my ignorance!

[John Cooper]

BoB = Battle of Britian Best of luck and please do keep us posted... question what is under the small flap? - and if there are any buttons with logos please post them as well.

[Guest greglufty]

BoB = Battle of Britian Best of luck and please do keep us posted... question what is under the small flap? - and if there are any buttons with logos please post them as well.

Under the small flap is a ring - like a simple key ring - attached to a cord that runs the length of the seam.

The cord weaves through small leather loops - im told it is for easy access for removing the jacket off a wounded pilot ... sounds plausible since I can not imagine any other use or reason for this. Anyone know if this is correct?

The triangular flap simply keeps the ring from getting caught on anything I am guessing.

All the zippers have "ZIPP" stamped on them (see my rather lousy attached pic) with a lightening bolt kind of logo. I imagine that could help date it - but a quick google does not help find 'zipp" zipper company!

There is also a zipper on the right shoulder for added 'fit' i guess, but it also is in a curious place! Ive attached a pic of it as well - it is under a leather shoulder flap that is secured by the only button on the jacket.

in addition there are two leather loops I am told were for oxygen mask tubes - Ive seen those on other jackets. There is a lot going on on the front of this jacket! But I am very fond of it, and intend to start wearing it when it gets cold enough - Im hoping it will not attract the ire of any older New Yorkers who remember the war and recognize the jacket style ... Ive always thought of the Luftwaffe as honorable men, mostly (maybe its my German heritage) - many pilots were not even members of the Nazi party.

Anyway - any helpful info about the specifics of the jacket from anyone would be much appreciated.

kind regards

greg NYC

[John Cooper]

Well my guess was correct - from the little information I have and the general design and finally the ring I think you just may have a jacket that was made from an early Winterfliegerkombi. On page 88 of Prodgers book on flight clothes he shows a very similar item except for the fact it is a full suit. I think maybe when they phased this out someone decided to take it to a tailor and have a jacket made from the top for those cold days.

If I had a scanner I would post you a picture of the summer and winter versions and would would see what the similarities.

BTW the ring was designed for to aid in the rapid removal of the flight suit to enable treatment of wounded flyers.

Thoughts anyone?

Regards

John

[Guest greglufty]

Well my guess was correct - from the little information I have and the general design and finally the ring I think you just may have a jacket that was made from an early Winterfliegerkombi. On page 88 of Prodgers book on flight clothes he shows a very similar item except for the fact it is a full suit. I think maybe when they phased this out someone decided to take it to a tailor and have a jacket made from the top for those cold days.

Thanks! Ill see if i can find a copy of that book - any idea if those leather flight suits are still available for purchase? I must say my jacket looks like it was made as a jacket by the original tailor, all the seams, threading etc look identical along the bottom to the rest of the jacket. I posted one more pic - are these rare, or easily found on line?

thanks again

Edited February 3, 2006 by greglufty

[John Cooper]

I have never looked for one but I am sure you can find them - I have seen the summer types before... just be careful whom you buy from...

[GdC26]

I have never looked for one but I am sure you can find them - I have seen the summer types before... just be careful whom you buy from...

I agree with luftyguy that this appears to be a a leather flight combi for flight over water, cut down to a jacket. No telling from the pics if the modification is wartime or post war (Germany was in less then great shape after May '45, and quite a few military items were altered for civillian use).

The suits themselves are not too common, but there are not that many collectors looking for them, either. I think RelicHunter (Gerard Stelzelberger) offered a minty example recently for (if memory serves) around US$ 2000. In light of prices paid for similar items on for example German e-bay, I believe that to be at the high end of the scale.

Hope of use,

Sandro

GdC26

[Jos Le Conté]

I agree,cutdown bombersuit..+ extra additional zipper,probably pocket ?

Here's one I had and sold 2 weeks ago..

I didn't ask a lot,because there's a small public for these items.

It went for 650 Euro,little loss of fur at the collar..

Mine had real fur,they also came in artifical fur,which lasted longer.

I think maybe 750/800 for one in top condition will be enough.

I followed that $ 2000 suit on Ebay where it was won for half that price,which reflects the prices I've mentioned.

Jos.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Jos Le Cont

[Jos Le Conté]

Era pic..

Jos.

[John Cooper]

I agree,cutdown bombersuit..+ extra additional zipper,probably pocket ?

Jos.

Jos comming from you (your agreement) I feel good knowing because your knowledge base is vast compared to mine.

Cheers

John