Mongolia I need an opinion

[Mogul]

I have a few orders from Mongolia in my collection and it's definitely not my thing, so here is the question. This Red Banner comes with no serial number and I started thinking that it's either a very rare piece or the opposite. Doesn't look like a fake to me, I have a few with numbers and they all look alike. Help me out, please.

[Greg Collins]

Mogul,

While I do not own one of these awards in my Mongolian collection, I will say that there are details I don't like that I'm seeing here, especially in the reverse image. Very rough, uneven edges are all over the place, the scratching below the pin assembly, the pin assembly itself seems to have been cut with metal shears. The front seems to be showing a fair amount of verdigris at the bottom (could be the lighting)- unusual for this award. While the red and yellow painted areas look basically ok, the blue and green areas look sloppy and both colours are considerably off-tint. Take a look at this:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/13677-fakes/page__st__20

Posts #34 and #35 and form your own opinion.

[Greg Collins]

Just took a look at Dr. Battushig's book and, after looking at the example of the post '90 version (brass) of the award (which is showing several of the same features I listed above), I really can't tell whether yours is genuine or fake. Sorry for the inconclusive answer.

[JapanX]

This is authentic.

Made in Mongolia in 00s.

Brass.

Unissued one (although someone tried to make it looks like this piece was issued, thats why scratches and some kind of putty (? ).

Not the worst quality for modern Mongolian awards.

Regards,

Nick

Edited May 31, 2012 by JapanX

[Mogul]

The color is off because of the scanner light, it makes the damn thing shine with 10 different colors. Thanks for you comments. So, I guess this thing is okay and you can almost buy it in a corner store.

[RedMaestro]

I concur with Nick. At first I wondered if a serial number might have been scratched off, but that can't be. These scratches here wouldn't have been enough, and it's not the right area.

Alex

[Mogul]

Thank you guys.

[Tsend]

The specimen looks normal. I would also note that it is not rational to fake this order as the prices of the brass orders are much lower than that of made of silver and produced in the USSR. I think you can go and order this type of brass orders and medals (provided that you have a document for such orders/medals and claim that you lost them or got them stolen) at the Mongolian Mint and they will make this type of order for certain amount of cash.

[Mogul]

The specimen looks normal. I would also note that it is not rational to fake this order as the prices of the brass orders are much lower than that of made of silver and produced in the USSR. I think you can go and order this type of brass orders and medals (provided that you have a document for such orders/medals and claim that you lost them or got them stolen) at the Mongolian Mint and they will make this type of order for certain amount of cash.

Thanks for info. My problem with this one was very simple - I didn't know when it was built, because Mongolia is definitely not my region, it looked very new, so I was skeptical about it. I'm always skeptical when something looks new.

[JapanX]

I think you can go and order this type of brass orders and medals (provided that you have a document for such orders/medals and claim that you lost them or got them stolen) at the Mongolian Mint and they will make this type of order for certain amount of cash.

Hi Tsend,

do you know that for a fact, or is it your hypothesis?

I was under the impression that official replacement even the brass ones is not that easy deal in Mongolia.

Mongolia is not France

I`ve always thought that these shiny brass specimens are simpy stolen (or manufactured as extra nonregistered pieces) from mint.

Cheers,

Nick

[Tsend]

Hi Nick,

Yes, I know it for sure. In fact my co-worker's wife got her 1970 type Soviet made Order of Polar Star stolen back 1990s. So she took her Order Booklet and requested the Mongolian mint to make a duplicate order. They did it within a week. The order is of course made of brass and unnumbered.

[Tsend]

Here is the obverse photo of the order that was made as a replacement. I took the photo of the order few years ago to keep it in files and may be in my book.

[Tsend]

Here is the photo of the reverse. The speciment illustrated here is of better quality. I have seen many unnumbered Orders of Polar Star and Orders of Red Banner of Combat (Labor) Valor that looked far worse than this one.

[JapanX]

Hi Nick,

Yes, I know it for sure. In fact my co-worker's wife got her 1970 type Soviet made Order of Polar Star stolen back 1990s. So she took her Order Booklet and requested the Mongolian mint to make a duplicate order. They did it within a week. The order is of course made of brass and unnumbered.

Thanks for this info Tsend!

Unnumbered replacement...

Within week!

We are living in terribly decadent times...

No number, no letter Д or something nice like that...

No checking and rechecking in soviet style...

Last step toward France will be a shop when everyone could buy his own brass Legion of Honor (Red Banner/Polar star/... in our case )

And I am sure that this shop has been opened already. Unofficially of course. I saw way too many these shiny brass orders on the market, so they couldn't be all replacements. On the other hand (if everything that's easy and Mint people are so trustful) I guess one could demand replacement every week

Regards,

Nick

[JapanX]

I have seen many unnumbered Orders of Polar Star and Orders of Red Banner of Combat (Labor) Valor that looked far worse than this one.

You said it!