JapanX Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Detail close up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 What is this medal?! When it was issued? Here comes the opinion of Paul L. T. Kua from his article “Manchukuo's Award System & Some of its Lesser Known Awards” published in 1998 by OMSA journal. (8) Red Cross Membership Medal, Type II (figures M, N) —Peterson described a full-range of Red Cross awards all dated October 1, Kang Teh Year 5 (1938). These are made of silver or gold-plated silver, with designs very similar to their Japanese counterparts. Figures M and N show the obverse and reverse of the Special Membership Medal in gold-plated silver (right), the Regular Membership Medal in silver (center), and a rather unusual Regular Membership Medal in silver (left.) The last one, which does not appear in Peterson’s book, is of interest here. It measures 31mm (instead of 30mm like the other two), and is made of silver perhaps one third the thickness of the more common medals. The obverse shows a red enameled cross in the center surrounded by a laurel wreath, and the reverse shows an enameled Manchukuo flag in the center, with characters for Manchukuo on top, and “Red Cross Society Regular Member” in the bottom. No date appears, but because the silver is thinner, and the design and Chinese characters adopted are more Chinese than Japanese, one can safely guess that it was issued after October, 1943, during the last war years (*). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Interesting dating … But why Paul decided that this medal was issued after 1943? He gave his explanation in one of the footnotes. (*) “Manchukuo stamps can be used to cross reference the dates here. It is clear that the Red Cross Society was founded in October, 1938. A stamp issued for that purpose shows that date. The difference between the Chinese characters used in the two versions is subtle. In the 1938 medals, “Che Shi Zi She”, a Japanese term for the Red Cross Society, is used. In the undated, thinner, medal, “Hung Shi Zi Hui”, a Chinese term for the Society, is used. Since a stamp commemorating the 5th Anniversary of the Society, dated October, 1943, still used the Japanese term, one can conclude that the thinner medal was issued after that date”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Personally I think it will be much more realistically to conclude that this piece was some kind “interim medal” and was issued somewhere between 1931 and 1938. It obviously has features of early Chinese red cross medal (its obverse), but here and there you can detect small differences in design. Here comes a comparison. Obverse comparison (medal with Manchu flag vs. full member medal of Chinese Red Cross) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Details comparison (medal with Manchu flag vs. full member medal of Chinese Red Cross) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) The reverse inscriptions are practically identical. Both medals are full (regular) member medals (員會通普會字十紅) The only difference is the name of the country. Medal with the flag on reverse has this name Edited June 28, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 国州満 That is Manchukuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 And well-known for full member medal of Chinese Red Cross has this name (quite naturally ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 國中 That is China Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 What is this medal?! When it was issued? We have definitive answer to the first one – it is full (regular) member medal (or commemorative token?!) of Manchukuo Red Cross. The second answer is more difficult … Personally I think that this medal was issued before or around 1938. Regards, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwater Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 全部都是汪系国民政府的红十字会章。蒋系国民政府～下没有制式红十字会徽章体系 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Interesting JC! So this "medal with the flag" is not the national red cross medal, but branch medal. Issued by 汪系 Wang Department (Water consumption department?) 蒋系 - Jiang Department?! Do you have any info about time of issuing of this medal with the flag? After 1938? Around? Before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwater Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 汪系 Wang Ching-wei （1940～1945） 蒋系 Chiang Kai-shek （1932～1946） 国民政府1946年改为总统府，彻底没有个国民政府这个称呼了 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Gotcha So these are names ... 汪系 - well-known traitor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Jingwei 蒋系 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek ? Are you sure about 1946? I was under the impression that he died in 1975... Now who issued this or that medal ... This is the only question. Could you help us with these questions? Medal in post #35 and #36 was issued by 蒋系 or by 汪系? Medal in post #41 and #42 was issued by 蒋系 or by 汪系? If medal in post #47 and #48 was issued by 汪系, then why it has 旗 洲帝國 on reverse? Edited June 28, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hc8604 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I think he means the Chiang administration from 1932-1946. Chiang was not president the whole time until his death I believe Wang died in 1944 or his death was caused by an assassination I believe. It continued on without him until the end of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwater Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Medal in post #35 and #36 was issued by 蒋系 or by 汪系? 这种日式风格的红十字徽章，叫中国红十字会的都是汪系国民政府的，蒋系叫中华红十字会，且没有成制式的徽章体系。 Medal in post #41 and #42 was issued by 蒋系 or by 汪系? 跟前一个问题一样，也是汪系国民政府。 If medal in post #47 and #48 was issued by 汪系, then why it has 旗 洲帝國 on reverse? 这是满洲国红十字会，满洲国的红十字徽章很乱，至少有3种不同的版别，有叫红十字也有叫赤十字。风格大体和汪系国民政府还有日本的红十字徽章一致。另外。。满洲国也是中国。虽然二战中世界上多数主流国家承认满洲国，但是正统中国的蒋系国民政府从未承认满洲国。汪系国民政府迫于日本压力勉强承认满洲国，但汪精卫本人并不情愿，也一直想收复国土兴复中华。 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 I think he means the Chiang administration from 1932-1946. Chiang Kai-shek?! Chiang Kai-shek = Chiang Kai-shek administration? Go figure ... I believe Wang died in 1944 or his death was caused by an assassination I believe. It continued on without him until the end of the war. He sure did. Lucky bastard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Ok. So you think that medal in post #35 and #36 and medal (order) in post #41 and #42 were issued by Wang Jingwei collaborationist government in Nanjing (established March 30, 1940). As for medal in post #47 and #48 all you can say is that it is one of the variations of Manchukuo red cross medals. Do you have any time estimates for this medals? If indeed medal in post #35 and #36 was issued by Wang Jingwei government then the time period is obvious - between 1940 and 1945. But when medal in post #47 and #48 was issued? Edited June 29, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwater Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 When medal in post #47 and #48 was issued? I don`t know But you can see 1938 Manchukuo red cross medal (康德五年） Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Yes, we do ... Well, if the chinese red cross medal (posts #35 and #36) design indeed was established no earlie than in 1940, then the medal in post #47 and #48 probably was issued somewhere between 1938 and 1944/1945... The strangest thing is the design of this medal. Obverse from Wang Jingwei medal. Reverse bears Manchukou Flag. How this is possible?! They really detested each other! P.S. Here you will find alternative english-chinese translator http://www.worldlingo.com/en/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html and english-chinese dictionary http://www.tigernt.com/dict.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwater Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 They imitate the Red Cross emblem from Japan, Japan the Red Cross emblem history longer more early, so their style is very similar. Even the collectors that manchukuo and wang is the national government of the Red Cross emblem is Japan OEM manufacturing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidS Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 How do you like this one? Note Chinese-style double dragons and Manchukuo orchid on the obverse. Then "Manchukuo" inside case lid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Simply UNREAL!!! Most likely this one was issued by city branch of Manchukou red cross. Very cool piece :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Thanks to David we can examine this highly interesting piece in every detail Box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 In the box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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